Bringing Up Bebe, Simplicity Parenting and Lessons from Growing Up on a Ranch | Tye DeGrange (father of 2, founder of Round Barn Labs)

Adam: How close is the TV show Yellowstone to your reality growing up? Probably a little different.

Tye: I think this, the weird comment is that it's probably closer than most people would realize or expect.

Adam: That's awesome.

Tye: The drama, the drama!

Adam: maybe minus the murders and things like that. Hopefully there was none of that in your childhood…

Tye: Fortunately!

Adam: Welcome to Startup Dad, the podcast where we dive deep in the lives of dads who are also leaders in the world of startups and business. I'm your host, Adam Fishman. In today's episode, I sat down with Tye DeGrange. Tye is the founder of Round Barn Labs, which is a performance and affiliate marketing company that has worked with companies like Oculus, ThredUP, Modcloth and Nextdoor. Prior to that, he had career stints at Amazon, eBay, and Commission Junction, to name a few. He's a husband and the father of two kids. In our conversation today, we spoke a lot about the parenting philosophies that have influenced Tye and his family. From growing up on a farm and a working ranch in Northern California, To some of his favorite books, like Bringing Up Bebe, and Simplicity Parenting, and the lessons that they've taught him.

We talked about Tye's own relationship with social media, which powers his agency's work, and how he thinks about its influence on his children. Tye told a story that has quickly become my favorite. It's his how you met your spouse moment. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. You may have missed Valentine's Day, but remember that Startup Dad has a new merch store.

Amazing gear for all the startup dads and moms in your life. Check it out at www.startupdadshop.com That's S H O P dot com.

Adam: I would like to welcome Tye DeGrange to the Startup Dad podcast. Tye, it is great to have you here. We've known each other for a long time, but we've never talked about parenthood.

Tye: I'm thrilled to be on today. It's awesome to reconnect with you. And yeah, talking about a new topic, not a new one for us, but a new one for us to talk about. Let's do it.

Adam: Yeah. Awesome. So, before we jump in, I do like to cover a little bit about people's professional background. So you have a really interesting role in sort of running an agency. But tell me a little bit about the last 20 years and how you got to where you are today.

Tye: Yeah. Wow. That's a lot of time to cover, but I'll do my best. Right. Yeah, I've been in performance marketing for about 20 years. I actually got started at a Sequoia backed startup that was in the programmatic marketing space. One of the big attempts to get in on the ad network growth that was exploding double click kind of, you know, emulated and led that with the Google acquisition.

After that stint I got my first taste of affiliate marketing, which was very interesting at Commission Junction, they were really one of the leaders in the space and they're still very prevalent in it now with, you know, huge enterprise clients a lot of good press.

They were part of Value Click and kind of marching, you know, growing that publicly traded company. And so I got to grow brands like Bowflex and StubHub and various other consumer brands. You got to see kind of like what affiliate was. In some ways it kind of operates in a weird way, like a highly efficient, you know, multi channel marketing arm, which is a whole other topic but from there I was really lucky and fortunate to be considered for StubHub and eBay, and then eBay ended up making the most sense and was fortunate to go there with a team leading out a global affiliate program. And so the types of people I was exposed to there, many of you probably know. Tangentially or directly, were just insanely talented and thoughtful and interesting.

And so it was really a eye opener for me getting exposed to other areas of marketing from SEO to paid and so with that, I think I really wanted to get into an opportunity where I could I went to a VC backed startup, Kleiner Perkins backed startup that was kind of exploding in the daily deal space many, many years ago, which feels like ancient history, all the cycles we've been through.

But I was able to, you know, run a all paid acquisition for them. And so really a massive step in the direction of being able to be, you know, more of a multi channel leader and kind of getting the right channel mix. And. And operating and kind of being the one that hires and evaluates agencies and contractors and staff and such and budgeting.

And it was really an opportunity to get more in the weeds on a number of things and get more multichannel. I think that kind of sparked the opportunity towards Roundbarn Labs. And as people started asking me questions, like, how do I get this set up? How do I think about attribution? How do I think about selecting channels, allocating budget towards channels, a lot of the things that you and I have talked about over the years and you've obviously experienced firsthand. That started to kind of get the wheels turning about, do I have an opportunity to create something that's independent? That is coming at it from an objective perspective, a point of view, you don't have to necessarily play all the internal games and challenges that we all have had to encounter, which, you know, some good and bad come from. And so, I was excited about that opportunity to have kind of freedom and autonomy to select a little bit more obviously that cuts both ways but just thrilled. It's been about 10 years now. And so Round Barn Labs has evolved in many, many iterations. And it's been a lot of fun to continue to chip away and grow it. And it's been great.

Adam: Cool. So the name of your company that you run now is called Round Barn Labs and I learned in our prep for the show that you grew up on a working ranch in Santa Rosa, California. Did those two things have anything in common? Did you have a bunch of round barns on the ranch?

Tye: We had a barn or two. It was such a cool way to grow up, to be honest, it was such an awesome experience and, you know, I think a lot of it really stemmed from me kind of wanting to share that experience, continue family traditions and honor that legacy in my own way. That was really a lot of what motivated me.

There was a round barn actually like a stone's throw from our property. It was called the Fountain Grove Round Barn. And there's a wild history around it where this utopian guy actually created it. And they were doing, like, very sophisticated grape growing in the 1800s. They tried to create this, like, utopian society, which not many people know about.

But the point is, like, you drive up to kind of, you know, you're headed up from San Francisco, and you're heading into Sonoma County, and it's kind of an iconic figure up on that hill. And what I share with folks often is that, hey, you know, my name, Degrange, happens to loosely translate to from the barn in French.

And then the barn was just very connected to my, where I grew up, on a ranch with a horse and, cattle and animals and that experience, which is great. And then there's a cool kind of concept where these round barns came about for a while because you could actually get more surface area out of the same material.

So it was kind of a fun little efficiency play there. So that's kind of where the name came from. But yeah, it was a cool place to grow up and try to keep that tradition alive.

Adam: Yeah. I mean, this sounds like maybe a stereotypical question, but do you think growing up on a working ranch, which also was a summer camp, your parents were probably like up super early and, you know, I feel like my knowledge of working ranches comes from the TV show Yellowstone, but um, Did that kind of shape your work ethic and like the approach of being independent and kind of like running your own thing?

Tye: I think it really did. And I think you sometimes just like anybody, you kind of don't always realize what kind of influenced you growing up because it's, you know, nature and nurture and you just inherently do it. I don't want to make it sound like we were on a, you know, Nebraska wheat farm in the 30 degree weather, because I think there was like, you know, a lot of things that were very amazing and privileged and insanely fantastic about being able to have access and to people and things but I do think that there was a really strong work ethic involved. I mean, they took such pride in making sure that things were right for the kids coming in and my mom with her discipline around horses. And there was a lot of you know, how you treat animals and making sure that they're taken care of and fed before kind of you are essentially in some ways and certain like ranch rules that are, I think kind of, kind of awesome, actually, like just some of the cowboy code of ethics that I've kind of, you know, shared about my dad's perspective on in my writing and just it kind of comes out of me regularly and as I kind of shared with you and as my wife sometimes appreciates and sometimes eye rolls and I hope my kids will appreciate at some point, whether they like it or not.

But there was a pride and a care and a work ethic also a lot of, you know, joy and fun and positivity around a summer camp where, you know, gosh, kids are going there and they're fortunate to be able to go and, you know, sometimes there were kids there that would be able to go that maybe weren't often, you know, able to access that.

So it was like a mix. It's kind of a special, unique environment, and in some ways you kind of had to reorient your yourself to the hard real world. But there's something pretty magical about that. And so I think kind of a mix of things I've learned from that experience.

Adam: How close is the TV show Yellowstone to your reality growing up? Probably a little different.

Tye: I think this, the weird comment is that it's probably closer than most people would realize or expect.

Adam: That's awesome.

Tye: The drama, the drama!

Adam: Maybe minus the murders and things like that. Hopefully there was none of that in your childhood.

Tye: Fortunately!

Adam: Yeah.

Tye: Fortunately not.

Adam: We're a murder free working ranch.

Tye: Murder free. It's a slogan that performed really well in testing.

Adam: That's good. Okay. So I want to transition and talk a little bit about life now. So you no longer live in California but you were here for a while and you were up in Seattle, but I'm very curious to hear a little bit about your family. And then your partner. And also you have a pretty funny story about how the two of you met. So I'm very curious to hear that story.

Tye: I met my wife at a holiday party about 10 years ago in Ventura, California, and my good friend from college throws a holiday party every year. And I didn't have kids and he, you know, he was very close and he was just getting into that kid's age and I kind of wanted to make it funny and fun for them and kind of play the whole, you know, have you been good Santa connection card like, hey, like, you know, and so I'd bring gifts down every year and I would dress up with some, you know, silly holiday character.

One year I was Eddie from National Lampoon's Vacation which I think the parents appreciated more than the kids, obviously. And this particular year I was dressed as Buddy the Elf. And I think my wife, at one point thought I was hired help for the party which, you know, it was divulged later, but I think it was instrumental in kind of breaking the ice and being able to have a fun conversation.

And I was very lucky because I was very, very grateful. I met my wife, obviously, and rest is history.

Adam: Yeah, it was love at first sight in those tights and and a furry outfit. So.

Tye: Yeah, it was no shortage of conversation to be had And so I think we've gotten a lot of jokes and longevity out of that over the years. I think it was mentioned at my wedding shower and a few other key events, so.

Adam: And maybe a hint at your future, you know, love of being a dad you know, dad's dressing up in costumes, like what we do. So tell me about your kids. You've got a pair of kids pretty young still.

Tye: Yeah. My little girl Hayward is three. I just dropped her off at school this morning. She was named after my dad who was born in Hayward, California. And her middle name is Hollis, which is the street that my wife's side of the family, her grandmother and grandpa grew up on in Florida.

So a lot of family legacy in her name. And then Gray my little boy's one, he just turned one on Saturday.

Adam: Oh, exciting. You made it!

Tye: We made it! I know right, like that first year it's like a weight off the shoulder a celebration a joy. But we named him for our favorite book, that kind of symbolizes like where we fell in love San Francisco.

It's one of my favorite books about the city. It's called Cool Gray City Of Love, and the author does a phenomenal job of kind of taking the Japanese tradition of like these various views of a story from different angles. And they kind of, the seven by seven inspired the 49 views of San Francisco.

And so it's 49 small chapters and each chapter is like a geography - this really highlights the unique geography of San Francisco. It's just an awesome story. So, that's kind of his name inspiration. And then his middle name is Feist. And it's in honor of Bob Feist who actually worked for my grandfather, total cowboy, total radio announcer, similar kind of storyline of like where my grandfather and father came from a lot of that, you know, cowboy ranch work ethic and just attitude and Bobs just such a positive, phenomenal influence on my life. He’s been a bit of a mentor and a dear friend. And he actually happens to operate one of the bigger ropings in the world called the Bob Feist Invitational, which is a true cowboy event. It’s very Yellowstone.

Adam: Someday Gray, I mean, I don't know if he's met, if they've met each other, but someday maybe Gray will participate in the roping event that bears his name.

Tye: There you go. There you go. I like that.

Adam: So tell me a little bit about your wife. So, obviously you met when you were in full costume. But tell me about what your wife, does. What she did and does for work. And then also curious to hear about the decision for the two of you to start a family. What was that conversation like?

Tye: Obviously, I mean, yeah, she's amazing. We've, for obvious reasons, I think that. She, yeah, I think we came from very similar, but different backgrounds, which is really interesting. We can talk a little bit about that. She is phenomenal salesperson and has a really, can plan an event like nobody's business can be really creative and thoughtful around marketing and kind of like, where brands kind of fit in. I think she's very talented, her dad was a surgeon and her mom was very talented around like decor. And so I think that like collectively she comes with she's really, she's just, she's a very talented person. And she was running the Santa Barbara polo club when I met her.

When she moved up to San Francisco, she got into tech, worked at Salesforce, worked at If Only with our friend Caitlin and that group. And really, I think embrace that, like she really nailed the, like, understanding how to create special experiences for you know, people that really demand those types of elevated experiences in the 1 percent and in the venture capital and what that business is trying to do. And she really, you know, worked hard with that team on an exciting startup as you know, and I think learned a ton and I think she did that in other roles as well.

And so I think as we got into like, you know, starting family mode. I think we both knew we wanted to have kids. I think when we found out for her, it was kind of like a shock to the system to be like, for her, I think she was really scared and like, oh shit, how is this going to change us? Is this going to really be detrimental and hard and kind of almost make it harder for us to be the couple that we were and we appreciated and loved about what we had.

And I think that that fear quickly changed into like excitement and joy and prep and I think she's just one of those people that when she does something, she does it so well. It's like the discipline, the quality, like she's just, she's very thorough and very thoughtful about a lot of things she does, and I think that she knew when she was going to be a mom, she was going to go all in, in spades, just like many parents and many moms.

Moms are like the, you know, the core, I think of that. And so that's kind of a little bit of that evolution of how it went forward. 

Adam: Yeah, and then now she stepped back from the tech world. Obviously, that's pretty intense to be running a massive events for If Only and now it sounds like she's doing something that I guess has a lot of passion for. She teaches, she teaches kids swimming, which is pretty cool and a very different, although I don't know, wrangling you know, wealthy tech folks may be similar to teaching kids how to stay afloat in a pool.

Tye: There you go. Debatable, which is easier actually. I think a lot of people as they've matured through tech, and I think you're kind of one of those that is really like. You know, hit a home run and doing so many great things in it. And I think I've been fortunate too. Tech is kind of working for us for like a better term and I think taking my wife out for a moment, not to say it's like we're over it or she is, but I think it's easy for people to kind of think about, okay, what else is out there?

How do I balance things out? What's the cost benefit analysis of a startup, for example. But I think what she was lucky to do is that she was, you know, parenting Hayward and she actually grew up with ISR training as a kid and actually saved her sister at one point. So it's a type of rescue swimming actually originated out of Florida where she grew up.

She took Hayward to one of the best instructors in Austin and hit it off, saw how it was working. Was always very appreciative, impressed and Hayward was able to float and, you know, God forbid she were to stumble in a pool, we're not around or looking, you know, she you know, could float and swim and kind of survive that is the idea. And, she looked at jobs opportunities, like, what do I get into next? And I think, this presented a great balance of part time interconnected to the community. I think something that she didn't realize she missed. When I see her interact with people live and in person, it's like, she's kind of in that flow state and it just feels like there's a lot of positives, right?

You're basically, you know, kind of indirectly saving lives. If you think about it, helping kids, you're helping parents. She's often, as we alluded to, in this challenging position of helping parents navigate a scary situation. When I first went to it, I was like, I'm gonna throw my 6 month old in the pool and they didn't throw them, but, you know, that's a misnomer. Uh, it's scary, you know, and so, like, she's really helping parents hey, this is normal. This is fine. This is what I'm doing. This is the technique. Like she does a really good job of balancing that. So it's been really fun to watch her. And he's joined up with someone who's done a phenomenal job with her business.

And so she doesn't have to like start from scratch. She gets to be the number two. She gets to be a good helping supporting, you know, teammate and also help the community. And you know, it's a nice balance because, you know, being a mom. And for us right now is certainly a full time job and then some, and you know, the most important jobs as everyone knows, but I think what people don't always recognize is she is 1 of those and I think there's so many women out there where they've got to have something. All of us do and her mind is certainly of that, that she really needs that outlet and creativity effort as well as the hard work involved with being a mom.

Adam: Well, she sounds like a pretty wonderful person. Also amazed that she chose you after your Buddy the Elf costume.

Tye: I mean, I still wonder why on some occasions, but…

Adam: So I want to transition a little bit away from Buddy the Elf. Although, I could spend an hour…

Tye: We might bring it back. We might bring it back!

Adam: Oh, don't worry. I'll get there again. I'm sure of it. But I wanted to talk about you and fatherhood. And the first thing that I wanted to ask you is your earliest memory of becoming a father.

Tye: I'll try not to get emotional on this one. When Hayward was born, I think I somehow was holding her before, this was, this was pandemic times. So this was, yeah, this was October of 2020. Somehow I was holding her before my wife, I think. I don't, I think there might've been a brief moment where she was kind of out of it and holding on to Hayward.

And then they kind of cleaned her up a bit and brought her over to me. And she literally was smiling ear to ear. And I was just like, holy cow. And I mean, you know, there's like a photo of it. It says so much. It was just like jaw dropping, like joy and happiness.

And like a feeling that, you know, I've never thought, you know, you'd never fathom and then when it happens, you're just like, Oh my gosh, you're in a whole nother world, you know, it was really powerful, really. Kind of funny. It's like, really? Like he, she cried a bit and then it was just like beaming smile.

And so I just feel this like powerful, you know, connection to her, obviously as your first child and daughter and all the things, and joy overload.

Adam: What a great memory to have. When you think about, you know, you have two young kids, so you're still in it, you're still in the thick of it. What are some of the more surprising things that you've discovered as a dad?

Tye: Not to flip it back to my wife, but I feel like it's so connected and you're so there to support and protect and ensure that they're happy and have what they need to do the magic of being a mom. And, the challenges that they go through mentally and physically are pretty high, and I think there's the game of making sure that you are taking care of each other mentally and physically is such a huge piece of it, and the mental health game is like, massive.

 I think it's good for parents going in just to know that like, you know, a lot of these things that are just expected are not always no brainers and there's joy everywhere, but there's also just challenging and work and, disrupted sleep, and I think it's like just being prepared mentally getting the health, the physical and mental health dialed in really, really well as a team, as a couple is like huge part of kind of surviving and, we don't talk about that enough it's hard. It's not an easy task for everyone and anyone. It's quite an athletic endeavor to have a child. So commendable to those who are able to get through it with their mental and physical state, you know, okay.

Adam: You just celebrated a first birthday with your younger one, and you've got a three year old, so, you probably are still getting peppered by advice. If you could rewind the clock and give another dad some advice as they're about to experience parenthood, fatherhood, what's some advice that you got that, maybe you didn't appreciate it at the time, but kind of really resonates with you now.

Tye: I think there's a couple of things that come to mind. One is like simplicity. I think like there's a tendency and data overload, media overload, knowledge overload to overcomplicate. And I think that there's like a solace and simplicity kind of thinking that I think is important to think about.

I think similarly, like, leading to that is like kind of a trusting of your own intuition and especially the mother's intuition. Like, you probably know what's best for your child and what's best for you in the situation. And then I think what the foundation of a lot of that is just like, we've been pretty good. I think Blaine, my wife has done a phenomenal job at just being very structured in terms of like the days and the feeding and the schedule. And then I think that helps so many other things, the feeding, which leads to the sleeping. And so I think that the structure is a great foundation for the things that allow the simplicity and then just like the, hey, you've got this kind of gut reaction of like, you're really trusting yourself a little bit. What, you know, necessarily always seeking it out from others. I mean, certainly there's times when you need to get that from, you know, medical professionals or family or resources. But I think those three really resonate for me.

Adam: Yeah. You know, the scheduling thing is really interesting. There's so little that it feels like you have control over when you have a newborn and young kids, right? Like, kids are just a powder keg at any point in time. And so one of the few things that you can kind of control is, well, what is the routine that we're trying to have in our lives?

And I feel like that gives you some, not everybody subscribes to that theory, but I do feel like that gives you some sort of stable footing from which to operate from, because there's a lot of other chaos happening.

Tye: Yeah, exactly gives you something to fall back on when the chaos ensues you know, and sometimes you have to throw the playbook out the window, but…That's right. 

Adam: Much like building a company.

Tye: Yeah, very true. Very true.

Adam: So, so I wanted to talk to you. You have a lot of thoughts and you mentioned a bunch of kind of different books and philosophies that you've subscribed to as, as you had kids and as your kids are you know, growing.

And so I wanted to spend some time there. And so my question to you is, are there any particular frameworks or guardrails that you've developed as a parent that you feel have been super helpful and you know, other folks might benefit from being aware of?

Tye: I'm trying to remember when we read this, we read Bringing Up Bebe, I think we read it, like, right after we found out know, she was pregnant.

And I think, like, the interesting thing about that is after kind of getting through a lot of that and reading it, we realized that a lot of the things that our parents did, obviously they didn't read the book, but they were similar to that, right, wrong, or indifferent. And so I think that kind of helped us go, oh, that makes sense.

And it's definitely not for everyone, I'm sure it's quite a difference of opinion, but we've really kind of resonated to kind of that. And I think it's, a lot of it is like we're at a general sense, we're kind of living our lives and yes, you know, our kids are instrumental and the center of it.

And if you're kind of following us throughout the day and the week, you know, everything kind of revolves around the kids, but that book kind of preaches a philosophy of, like, the kids are kind of along for the ride with you, not the other way around. And I think that helps sometimes in the chaos, even though, you're obviously, hey, when the kid's crying you're feeding it when it's, you know, time to change, you're changing it. But I think there's a good philosophy and hopefully as they get older. And I think we've been able to grab elements of it of like, you know, they're eating what you're eating.

There's boundaries and expectations and limits to what they're allowed to do. There's, meal time is a bit of a sacred of like, hey, like we're all sitting down together and we're all talking and it's encouraged to take that break. And it's not just. Oh man, just consume whatever you can whenever you can.

I think there's a little bit of that, maybe older school hey, this is what we have, and this is how we can enjoy and entertain the moment. We don't necessarily need, like, everything in front of us to happy or entertained and I think that I remember even having that conversation with my dad growing up where it's like, you don't need to like, constantly have movies on loop and I think there's a little bit of that you know, it's not necessarily like every last request or you know, statement or question or, you know, thing is met with a, here you go. Like it's more of a, the parent is definitely in charge and this is kind of what we're doing as a family. And this is the direction and the schedule and you know, you're definitely coming along for the ride while we parent and support and help and nurture. 

Adam: Yeah. you're a participant, willing or unwilling. We're going on this journey together.

Tye:Yeah. Yeah.

Adam:You know, it's really interesting what you mentioned there, because, you know, my kids are older than yours by, you know, almost a decade in some cases but lately we've been talking to our kids a lot more about, you know, this idea of boredom and sort of like sitting with your boredom and just It's okay to be bored.

You don't have to fill that space. There's ways that you can do it that don't involve a screen or like entertainment from one of your parents or something. And a lot of interesting things come out of that boredom. I'm amazed at what my kids find in the house and then do things with after they say, I'm bored and I say, okay, great.

You know, figure it out. So we've been trying a bit more of that and then I think that makes sense. So that book that you mentioned is called Bringing Up Bebe. We'll link to that in the show notes. The other one that you mentioned to me was this idea of Simplicity Parenting. What is simplicity parenting?

Tye: Yeah. my wife read this and I admittedly didn't read it cover to cover, but this one's cool because I think it's kind of like a, it's like declutter.

It's consistency. It's if there's kind of less physical noise in front of them they're less likely to kind of feel like. Oh, I'm kind of, things are a bit out of control or there's, maybe a little bit more anxiety or just less crap to be candid in front of them. And I think like, it's not like a minimalist, total minimalist thing, but I think it's a very good it's kind of a good examples. Like, like on Sundays in particular, we're trying to like schedule and I think this is going to be truly challenged as they get older, like 3 and 1 year old. Right? We're talking about a much easier management when it comes to like, some of these things like tech, like distraction, like stuff.

And I think that now we're trying to hold the line and it's like working, but will be interesting to see where that goes. But I think a lot of it just is a tenant of like less stuff, less activities, less entertainment, less scheduled stuff like, oh, we got to go to Johnny's house. So we got to go to so and so's place.

We got to go over here. We got over there. And I think it's great. And I commend and everyone's got a different approach and it's certainly not, strong opinions on all of them, right? Especially when it comes to your family and your kids and your way of life. But you know, it's not like we've lived it perfectly.

We definitely have had to do a lot of purging, donations, giving, selling of items. And we just had the birthday. So those items have gone up significantly in the last 24 hours which we're grateful for but you get the point it's less is more kind of thing. And it's like, it goes right exactly back to your point about it's okay to be bored and kind of create something from what is there as opposed to like, let me continue to like seek out new stuff, new things.

And I think you know, kind of like limiting the activities. One aspect of that is kind of like. I don't know if it's perfectly tied, but Hayward's three, she's in daycare. A lot going on at daycare, like there's kids are at that age are coming home and they are like a little bit fried. And I think I commend my wife because she'll know just when it's time to have Hayward in daycare and when it's time to have her home for the day. And we're very lucky because we've had a little bit of help, you know, Blaine can focus on, on, on the kiddos a lot. We're fortunate that way. And you know.

Moving to a little less expensive region has helped there a little bit, but she, she's really got a good knack for it. Like, okay, I'm going to let her be at home and just hang and do really nothing scheduled and she goes in the backyard, plays in the water thing. We have like this little jungle gym deal, which is awesome that she plays on.

Being outside. I think there's nice balance that has been achieved but we'll see if we can keep it going.

Adam: Yeah. Well, it sounds like it's a good system that's working out and, was that a book or just a concept called Simplicity Parenting?

Tye: It's a book. Yeah. I'd recommend checking it out. And I think they do a really good job of like, you know, less like, you know, force fed stuff and activities and more like ability to kind of have, embrace that downtime to explore like you alluded to.

Adam: Well, so one thing I wanted to ask you and. Is that, you know, partnership is really important when it comes to raising a family. It sounds like you and Blaine have a really good partnership there, which is awesome. Born in the fires of Buddy the Elf. I told you we'd get back there. It comes full circle, but, you know, one of the things that, that I find is it's also, it's impossible to agree 100% of the time with your spouse, with your partner. It just. You know that there are no people who are like, so the Venn diagram is not 100 percent overlapping, right? And so what's something that you and Blaine don't agree on when it comes to parenting or you know? What's a conflict that happens from time to time?

Tye: I like to joke that our Venn diagram is a narrow sliver when it comes to what to watch on streaming.

And then the, the other, like, half joke there is that, like, summer camp is the one thing we don't agree on.

Adam: Okay.

Tye: It’s like, you know, she her dad, you know, her family was like, summer camp's for kids who, parents don't want them around, like, I think that was his way of not having to pay for it.

Adam: Yep.

Tye: They had plenty of activities and kind of created their own like version of that. They were very fortunate and they were very lucky growing up for sure. And I was too, in a different way where I was fortunate enough to grow up on one, which is kind of nuts. And so I would get introduced to a new batch of friends every week and got to, you know, experience the magic firsthand and how the sausage was made and, you know, our perspective there is very different. Obviously, you know, it'll be interesting to see what we decide to do. There actually, there's some pretty cool camps in the Austin area. So, when the time is right maybe we'll do that. We'll see where we land. Maybe we'll compromise.

Adam: Yeah. It's gotta be harder, though, in Austin. You know, a summer camp here in California is, like, indoor, outdoor, like, kind of exploring. In Austin, it's like pretty hot in the summertime. And so, you know, yeah, it's almost like I have some family from Tucson, Arizona, and they're like, if you want to do anything in the summer, it needs to be before the sun is up and like, well, after the sun goes down, otherwise you're in the air conditioning.

Tye: It's crazy. You know, I think to some extent, like, you know, you grew up in it, you're going to be a little bit better acclimated, but boy, when it gets into the, you know, north of one o five it's just not. Not healthy, not fun. And so, yeah we're kind of eyeballing, you know, a couple getaway spots we're fortunate to be able to do.

And I know you've got to be creative and think about that, but that's definitely on the to do list as well. Just so we have some options, but like, yeah, you're gonna have to get creative, a lot of water, a lot of shade.

Adam: A lot of water, a lot of shade. Yep. I wanted to ask you because, you know, you've built an entire multi decade long career in technology, working for technology companies working with them, sort of owning your own agency. What is the relationship that you want your kids to have with technology as they get older?

Tye: Yeah, my wife and I talk about this a lot. It's a hot topic. I have strong opinions about it, and it's hard because, they're so young, so we're not even into the heat of it yet. Very early days. I really like, I had to like, obviously do some background on this book, because I couldn't remember the name of it, but Esther, I think Wojcicki?

How To Raise Successful People. I think she had three kids and they were all like ridiculously successful. It's easy book to read. Right. Right. But I really liked the idea of like, you want your kids to be able to utilize all the technology has to offer. You want your kids to be able to, and be empowered and have the agency and control and usage and knowledge for personal, professional reasons.

So I think there's that element that needs to be part of the foundation of like, okay, they know how to use it. I think the problem is I feel like we've kind of given kids like Pandora's box on steroids in this modern era. And it's pretty scary. I'm not necessarily, you know, spent my time, you know, looking at all of it or knowing every last detail of the negatives of it.

But I think a lot of people agree. It's just one thing my wife and I have said is, how do we kind of limit and protect for quite a while? It almost feels like giving them a car, like to me it really does you know, there's a reason why a lot of the companies we've been involved in have said like, okay, can't sell or market to kids under 18.

So. We've already started, like, there's a Garmin watch that I really like. It, I don't know that model and our kids are too young to have it yet, but it's just a great usage of like, I think it's almost like a, you know, two way talk nextell, but I think they can type in stock answers. Like I'm here, come and get me.

I'm not, you know, I'm not safe, whatever. There's lots of good things I think with tech like that. And I think there's unfortunately a lot of things that are happening on the other side of the coin where it's a little too much access and too much power and folks that can access them and all kinds of things.

And so I'm pretty protected and concerned about, but I also have hope that a lot of good smart people are, you know, in the next five years, are already working on tech to help balance and protect and enable parents to make better decisions. Cause I mean, it's uber top of mind with the hearings recently, and it's going to have some changes coming to very soon as we all know, you probably have some insight on that, so we're going to be pretty protective and I mean, draw a line, but I also hypothesize that there's going to be so many other options by the time our kids are there, that my hope is that, desire to draw a hard line is going to be empowered by a lot of other options and technology and education and awareness of like, what's good access, what's not good access, how do kids navigate it?

I mean, I feel like that in a weird way, that could be almost a business now to help people just really dial in and protect and really educate. And it's probably already starting to happen. But yeah, I about those ages about 14- 16, how formative those years are and how you want to give kids an increasing independence.

But can't imagine like in certain stages for my wife and I having the full access that kids do now with what we were doing and navigating at those ages.

Adam: I like that analogy that you use that it's like giving a kid a car, right? Like, you wouldn't give a 12 year old a Buick because they aren't mature enough to handle it. And there's a whole set of training and teaching. And, you know, that has to happen. And even some people are like, I don't know if a 16 year old's even ready for a car.

Because the brain isn't fully developed, you know, and so I think that's a really, it's a really interesting analogy to compare things like access to social media and, you know, just because it's on a screen doesn't mean it's any more safe than, you know, a 6,000 pound vehicle.

Tye: The point about brain development, I think is just absolutely spot on. And it's part of my thinking around it too. It's like the thing that I got the first iPhone, I was probably 20, I think I was 28,

Adam: Mm hmm.

Tye: But you know, let that kind of sink in and think about how much time in front of social media, which is absolutely addictive. I'm completely addicted to it. It's my job to be addicted to it. We, it's science. It's all the things, right? So I don't think we fully understand what it means to have something like that in your hands that I think there's just so much value at, like, being able to have conversations with people. And I think there's ways to do both, but, like, it's painful to see kids going through. Those are challenging years, you know, those are challenging years kids, for people, they always are. I think for young men in particular, young girls, when it comes to like, image I mean, it's just not to be a downer, but I think that, like, we're absolutely right. It's hard to know, like, where does that go and where does that end and how to I would rather them, you know, later on be able to access fully all of those things and then manage something that's like, here you go. Have something that's addictive.

Adam: Yeah.

Tye: We've been down this road before. It doesn't work well where you hand an adolescent something that's addictive.

Adam: Yeah. In many of the same ways, you know, again, back to that car analogy, but in many of the same ways as you're, you know, we teach we should teach kids how to, you know, consume alcohol responsibly and how to drive a car responsibly. Like this is another one of those tools. That is powerful and can do a lot of good and then also needs some training wheels. So it sounds like that's a good philosophy that you have. Last, last couple of questions for you. What is something that you've had to give up to become a father? How has life changed as a dad?

Tye: I think that I've always enjoyed, you know, sports and fitness and camaraderie and physical well being that comes from that. And I, going back to what I shared earlier, it's such a mental and physical game and like between the sleep deprivation and the changes on schedule and that you know, filling the playbook out the window as we talked about, it's really hard to kind of maintain and develop, continue those things.

And so as a 40 plus year old male does my back goes out doing kettlebell swings and he, you kind of, it was like a year long rehab of that. It wasn't necessarily, okay, this was because, you know, I had a kid, but it also, I think it also emphasizes the discipline needs to come from different ways.

And so similar thing that give up of like, hey, running your own business, being able to kind of tap into that and work at any time, anywhere that's good. And it's a blessing when it comes to having a kid and being a parent, but it also means you can't always be on, you can't always check in.

You can't always access it. And so there's times when you kind of have to, you know, time box that and say, hey, during this block of time, I'm not going to be able to, even though maybe I'm efficient or I can really get a lot of things done and I've got energy at that time, I can't really apply it to work or I can't really apply it to fitness.

And so I think variants of work and fitness, it just required a whole nother way of thinking about, okay, more discipline, more structure, more prioritization. In order to do those things. I am unfortunately, you know, with support from, you know, Everett and the fam and just, you know, my situation, I feel like I've been able to get physically stronger gradually after Gray was born.

I feel like the 2nd child was more of a curve ball to me than it was for Blaine. Whereas the first one was for her, as you know, this is a whole nother realm. I'm physically changing drastically, mentally changing. Having to really navigate a lot of things for her. And I think the second one for me was a little harder because it was like, okay we're playing man to man defense and I, I'm much more integral part of this now, not that I wasn't before.

So it demanded even more of me. And I think I gave up a little more on this one. But I feel like I've been able to find a nice rhythm and I'm very fortunate to like the physical so tied to the mental and I think like having those workouts and those as outlets are so important within reason and so in a weird way I also feel like I have obviously gained, you know, exponentially more than I've, like, had to give up or sacrifice. Like, the sacrifices seem, inconsequential, almost, if you can kind of just get a few of the basics dialed in,

Adam: Yep. What is a mistake that you've made as a father? We can't all bat a thousand. So what's, what's something that's happened that you kind of wish you'd done differently?

Tye: Well, I shouldn't have been holding my boy Gray during the first half of the Niners Lions NFC Championship game.

Adam: It would have been the opposite for me, but I would have been cheering. As a lifelong Lions fan, I don't know if fan is the right way to describe my relationship with the Lions, but I am from the Detroit area. So there's something there. But yeah, I hear you. So you were holding him and yelling about the frustrating experience?

Tye: Yeah, it was a loud no and and he, it was so sad. He like, he was like, teared up and my, my, it was like, you're not holding him for a while. Get away from me, animal. I felt terrible and it's slightly embarrassing, but, but yeah, it was. It was, I didn't realize the reaction compounded by today's feeling, but we'll talk about that another time.

Adam: Yes. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. My, my guess is you were not cheering or yelling no during the Usher halftime show, but I don't know. That was the highlight for me of that game. Uh…

Tye: There may have been an impromptu dance party that ensued when that kind of, that got going at halftime. I thought they did a fantastic job and I'm not an Usher fan, but I did predict one of the, one of the songs that came on, which was good.

Adam: Way to go. Okay, so, word to the wise, don't hold your very young child while you're watching an impassioned sporting match.

Tye: Yeah. Yeah. Maybe when he's much older or has a earmuffs on or not at all, probably for the best to just avoid mixing those two joyous things into one.

Adam: Yep. My last question for you is, you know, you run an agency. You own that business and that is a lot of work and I can imagine it's a pretty demanding job and you've got clients who have around the clock expectations and, you know, two young kids who have their own around the clock expectations.

How do you balance? I know you mentioned it's very helpful. Obviously, Blaine has a much more flexible role and job and can be the, you know, primary on point a lot of the time, but how do you balance for yourself work and the demands of running your own business and balancing a family with really young kids who have their own demands?

Tye: Yeah, yeah. It's a great question. I think obviously it's a good, Blaine and I get into a case of kind of checking in on the weekend to try to map out as much of the week as possible. That's been really helpful. And we even, you know, gotten into like the documentation around that.

We're not super hardcore around like, Other tools or requiring it all the time, but in particular on busier weeks it's super helpful. I think, you know, especially when she's in the water and doing her job, we, you know, by being in a, for us, a lower cost region than we were before, it's allowed us to occasionally get some help some support there, which is needed, babysitter help. Cost benefit here has been phenomenal as you can imagine. I think I'm very fortunate to, over a 10 year period. It's taken us a long time to really get the team right and have things in the right place and have SOPs and systems and expectations set up right. And I have a phenomenal chief operating officer.

We've gotten more mature as a business over the long haul and that's helped. I think maintain a balance for allowing for people to be able to do what we need to do. It's less like one person in particular feels like they're holding up the walls. Right. And so I think you know, in some ways you're kind of always on, I think my wife really, you know, she gets it.

She gets that this is there's some always on elements at times I will need to be, you know, not, you know, not physically at home and in the office or at times I'll have to be at a conference or at a client meeting. So I think there's a lot of mutual understanding and respect of what it is. But I think also you gotta kind of mix in those breaks and those family trips.

And kind of, you know, put those in the calendar ahead of time and work around them. And I've been very fortunate that I think it's been a good balance of team and family and getting that right over the years. And I think it hasn't come, you know, easy but I think we're in a really good cadence there.

And I'd say those are the things that really helped make that more balanced, I would say, maybe not the perfect balance.

Adam: All right. Last thing for you. If people want to follow along with Tye's adventure, support you in Round Barn Labs, what's the best way to do that? I imagine LinkedIn, Twitter, those are your two spots?

Tye: Yeah. Yeah. I think those are the two LinkedIn and Twitter. I definitely try to share you know, a lot of the stuff that we're doing hopefully educate and support the community of performance marketing and affiliate marketing and all the stuff that we're doing and yeah, that'd be good.

Hopefully having you on our little pod at some point too.

Adam: I will be there. I will reciprocate. I'm sure of it. I can only hope that I hold up to the standard that you have set for this podcast. So I will meet the demands. All right. Tye, do you have a few minutes for rapid fire? Which is one of my favorite, sessions. Okay. The rules of rapid fire are simple. There is one rule. I ask you a question. You respond as quickly as possible. And then. Most of the time we just move on to the next one. So, all right. Are you ready? Are you ready, Tye?

Tye: I'm ready.

Adam: What is the most indispensable parenting product you have ever purchased?

Tye: Baby Bjorn carrier

Adam: What is the most useless parenting product you have ever purchased?

Tye: Bottle warmer.

Adam: Ooh I have heard that more than once. Finish this sentence -

The ideal day with my kids involves this one activity____?

Tye: Playing outside.

Adam: Awesome. What is the best piece of parenting advice that you have ever received?

Tye: Let's say trust your gut. You know what is best for you and your child.

Adam: Which, which one of your kids is your favorite?

Tye: Too early to tell.

Adam: Too early to tell last week I had Patrick Moran and he said the dog. The dog is his favorite ki. What is the most frustrating thing that has ever happened to you as a dad?

Tye: I think going back to what we said, like you used to be able to tap into work whenever I needed to now I can't and I think just forced me to be very prioritized, more prioritized, more structured. I think, you know, maybe not always being able to, you know, get the workout, workouts in which, which give you that dopamine hit that I'm always craving, you know, it's like clear the mind and sometimes you just don't have that and you just got to rally.

Adam: Okay. How many parenting books do you have in your house?

Tye: I think we have about 20.

Adam: Okay. And how many parenting books have you actually read cover to cover?

Tye: I think about five or six. I think my wife's got me beat even though I'm quite a reader.

Adam: Five or six is impressive. A 25 percent read to purchase ratio for a parenting book? You're doing pretty great, Tye. Don't beat yourself up too much about that.

Tye: Thank you.

Adam: That's pretty good. What are the favorite ages for your kids? I know you actually don't have that many ages to choose from so far, so.

Tye: Yeah man, I'm gonna have to cop out on this one to say it's too early to tell. Gray's really fun right now too because it's like he, he wakes up and he's bigger, he crawls, he's just about to talk, he's just about to walk, he's not causing too much trouble yet, but he's hilarious, adorably sweet and, you know, always smiling and wants to just be around us and so, and when he wants his hug, he lets you know, he needs that when you come home, which is amazing.

Adam: How many dad jokes do you tell on average each day?

Tye: I think my team at work is probably the the gets the brunt of these, the worst.

Adam: They're benefactors.

Tye: Yeah, they are the recipients and the targets I'd say one, a two a day, and then I'd probably mix in a, you know, very outdated colloquial terminology from my cowboy dad on occasion, which probably is just as bad as a dad joke.

Adam: Love that. Love that. Have you ever pretended to be asleep to avoid a middle of the night wake up from one of your kids?

Tye: Definitely. Definitely.

Adam: Have you ever secretly thrown away a piece of your kid's artwork or maybe not so secretly?

Tye: Yes, definitely. I will say though, we have our little shrine and we're just pumping her artwork into that frame. Those are great products and just. Keep them coming. So they're up on that wall and she's got them, but I definitely have thrown some away.

Adam: Now, your kids are probably too young to ask for anything, but what is, or is there a very absurd thing that your kid has asked you to buy for them?

Tye: Anything stuffed animal related to the grocery store, but the the more concerning you know, update is that my wife, I think, is whispering in the ear of my three year old daughter about ponies, which we don't want to go there for obvious reasons.

Adam: You know everything about owning horses. So, yeah. I hear that they’re very involved.

Tye: I could give you a very long list of prices, pricing and time required that will take down your bank account and your schedule.

Adam: Yeah. What is the most difficult kids TV show that you have ever had to sit through?

Tye: I'm going to go with a controversial take. I'm going to go with the Daniel Tiger potty training for the long pauses. It's like. It's like really long pauses in there. They're just like, even though it's hard to hate Daniel Tiger, he's the best.

Adam: Such a great tiger.

Tye: But those ones come to mind.

Adam: Okay. What is your favorite kids movie?

Tye: I'm going to go with a battle to a classic Lion King and and a more modern Sing 2.

Adam: Ah, got that U2 effect there on Sing 2. 

Tye: Yeah, you got McConaughey, you got some great cameos, you got the bad wolf. It's just it's a fantastic story.

Adam: Have you ever accidentally mixed up your kids' names?

Tye: No, but I find that after becoming a parent, I now apparently mix up everyone's names in the extended family. So like, my wife's calling me my brother in law, like everyone's calling each other weird names now that you've got kids. It's just like it just seems to be happening more now.

Adam: I love that. Alright, how long in your household can a piece of food sit on the floor and you will still eat it?

Tye: I mean, I'm all about that five second rule. There's no issues with that.

Adam: Okay, will that change if you have a pony that lives in your house?

Tye: Yeah. Yes. Yes. Well, let's just say the Roomba is working overtime at our house.

Adam: Awesome. What sort of nostalgic movie can you not wait to force your kids to watch?

Tye: Definitely Goonies.

Adam: Oh yeah, we recently did that with our kids. They loved it. Great, great movie. How often do you tell your kids back in my day stories?

Tye: Oh my gosh. probably once a month even though they're super young and so I think that number is just going to grow exponentially as they get older and we're actually having more real conversation.

Adam: How often do you tell your co-workers back in my day stories?

Tye: Once a month, and it only goes up exponentially as they go through the organization.

Adam: All right. And finally, this is a big one. What is your take on minivans?

Tye: Ooh, man. I'm going to go hard pass unless it involves a sprinter van.

Adam: Oh, very nice. Very nice. Sprinter van is much more of a Swiss army knife of a vehicle than than the minivan. So.

Tye: I'm not very handy or adventurous, but I want to look handy and adventurous.

Adam: I love that. And on that note, the not very handy and adventurous tie. Thank you so much for joining me today on the startup dad podcast. It was a pleasure to have you. You gave me a lot of good stuff to share with my listeners. So take care.

Tye: Thank you. Thanks for having me, Adam.

Adam: Thank you for listening to today's conversation with Tye DeGrange. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe, share, and leave me a review. It'll help other people find this podcast.

Startup Dad is a Fishman AF production with editing support from Tommy Herron. You can join a community of nearly 10,000 subscribers and stay up to date on my thoughts on growth, product, and parenting by subscribing to the Fishman AF newsletter at www.fishmanafnewsletter.com. Thanks for listening. See you next week.