Founding A Company As A Toddler Dad | Ben Lauzier (Dad of 1, co-founder/CEO, Nurra)

[00:00:00] Ben: I want My kids, my daughter to like be comfortable with technology. I want her to like see the beauty of it. I love the idea of exposing her to like some of the tinkering that I do and like the magic that technology can bring, I think sometimes, but I'm also like a big fan of like the outdoors.

My hope is that, like, she can, like, find this, like, sort of genuine sort of passion for, like, the beauty of the outdoors and, like, finding this as kind of a quiet place that recharges you and connect this to, like, you know, the power of technology, I guess, in a way.

[00:00:27] Adam: Welcome to Startup Dad, the podcast where we dive deep into the lives of dads who are also leaders in the world of startups and business. I'm your host, Adam Fishman. In today's episode, I sat down with my longtime friend and former colleague, Ben Lauzier. Ben is the co-founder and CEO of Neura, an AI powered health assistant that helps you navigate your healthcare, and gives you a health advocate for your complex needs.

Prior to that, Ben was the VP of product at Thumbtack and a long time product leader at Lyft, where we first met. In addition to being an incredible founder, he's also a husband and the father of a young daughter. In our conversation today, We spoke about the health challenges that caused Ben to lean in more to fatherhood and eventually start his own company.

We also talked about the differences in parenting between France and the U. S. and what it has been like to start a company with a two year old. He had some great advice for dads on how to balance self care with fatherhood and remembering that change is the only constant in parenting. As a person immersed with technology and tinkering, we also talked about what he hopes for the future of technology with his daughter.

I hope you enjoy today's conversation with Ben Lauzier.

[00:01:44] Adam: I would like to welcome my friend Ben Lauzier to the Startup Dad podcast. Ben, been a long time coming to get you on this show. I'm very excited to have you here. Thank you for joining me.

[00:01:58] Ben: Yeah, of course. Thank you so much for having me. I've also like been eagerly waiting for my time on this podcast. So a dream come true.

[00:02:05] Adam: It's your moment in the sun. Lenny, step aside. Startup Dad is here. So Ben, tell me a bit about your professional career. Journey. That's

[00:02:15] Ben: So I'm French originally but spent my entire career in the U S. did like part of my master's at Northeastern in Boston. And after that got a job in New York. And my wife actually got a job at Dropbox in the Bay Area. I think this is like 20, 2009, 20, 2010, I think. And we moved to the Bay Area right after that.

I got a job. I was employee number three at a like small startup called Cater to Me, a marketplace For you know, corporate catering, restaurants, food trucks and companies and so it was employee number three, leading growth, basically and like scale the company for about a year and a half and Lyft was one of our clients and this is how we got to meet actually and so I think we had like some kind of like referral program or something like that.

And I think like he messaged me, you know, like, Oh, that's a cool program. Like we should chat. And I could not resist the Adam Fisheman charm, I think. And I got completely swayed. And the rest is history. Joined Lyft with you after and stayed at Lyft for six years, I think, from like 2013 to I think 2019, until the IPO and during most of my time at Lyft, I was basically leading the supply side of product.

So all the teams like touching drivers, the job onboarding team, experience team, like a lot of the compliance team and all that stuff. So a lot of really, really exciting challenges there as, you know, and after Lyft, I realized that I just loved marketplaces way too much. I have loved like the depths that they add to the products that we build.

And so I joined a SEMTAC a home services marketplace, and I joined as the VP of product and growth basically. And worked on a lot of really cool things, bringing a lot of the learnings from Lyft on like, how do you like, you know, pivot the marketplace to do the business to be much more market centric.

And, you know, got a lot of really exciting sort of, you know, challenges on the heels of that. But three years ago, I'm sure sort of talk a lot more about my personal journey, but just to wrap up on like the professional side, I guess, three years ago, my wife had a set of you know, health challenges that were really complicated to manage.

And so I ended the same time to make things easy. We also had a baby. And so, I basically had to, I quit my job to be a caretaker for my wife and daughter. And focused on like, you know, doing more consulting advising. I was also an executive in residence at Reforge for a bit. Something that you're also intimately familiar with.

Every like every couple of years, like we don't pass again. yeah, and moved to France about a year ago, actually to be a little closer to family. While my wife sort of recovers. We're still thinking about, like, you know, I'll move back to the U. S. once everything settles.

And since then, got obsessed with some of the healthcare issues that, you know, we got a glimpse of when we were in the U. S. And I built a health advocacy platform called Nurra. And this is like, what I've been working on for like the past few months. It's like, scaling this you know, my own startup, I guess, from the French Alps but tackling the US healthcare system.

[00:05:01] Adam: Wow. Amazing. What a journey. We're going to talk more about Nura in a bit because I think that's a really relevant personal story. And so, I did want to go back in time though and just ask you, so obviously you are French not a stretch. Can't hide the accent from me, Ben.

[00:05:18] Ben: I told you it's not. Yeah.

[00:05:20] Adam: It’s definitely the microphone. You found the French accent microphone. I am very curious about what life was like growing up for you. So where did you grow up? Where in France did you grow up? you have one sister, if I remember correctly. Yeah. Yeah. Just tell me a little bit about life growing up in France.

[00:05:36] Ben: Yeah, yeah. I grew up in a really like rural part of France in the south of France. My dad was actually a pilot in the French air force. And it's like, we would like move every, like year and a half or every two years because he'd be like stationed at like a different like base. So we'd get to like travel a little bit across France.

But then I spent the bulk of my childhood in the south of France. And yeah, just like a very small, like, town, like 500 you know, people, actually the town that my dad was born in and like that my grandfather was born in. So there's like a lot of like, you know, cultural identity that was attached to this.

And yeah, like spent, you know, a lot of my childhood you know, just living in the outdoors of like French countryside, I guess.

[00:06:17] Adam: Yeah. When you walked around this town of 500 people, were they like, Oh, that's a, whatever your dad's name. That's it. That's his kid. I know him. He's from here.

[00:06:26] Ben: I was a legend like people would like ask to take photos of me. Yeah, it was.

[00:06:31] Adam: You're the mayor of the 500 person town in the South of France. That's awesome. And you do have one younger sister, right? One

[00:06:39] Ben: okay. I have one younger sister.

[00:06:41] Adam: She’s in France still.

[00:06:42] Ben: France. She's in Annecy, which is where I am at I'm in the French Alps right now About half an hour from Geneva, an hour from Chamonix, , that's where she is. This was like a big part of the appeal with this area is lived in Tahoe for a bit in absolute love, like the mountains and the lake.

And so this is kind of the French Tahoe, I guess, in a way. And so

[00:07:00] Adam: French Tahoe.

Let's keep that a secret. We don't want it to be overrun by tourists. So, you have a wife, Gael, and you have a daughter, Noah, right. And how did you and your wife meet each other?

[00:07:14] Ben: Ooh. So we've been together for, I think she's going to kill me if I don't remember this. But I think we've been together for 20 years now. And I'm 36. So we've been together for like, yeah, since high school, basically Yeah. So it's been, so we met in high school in France and somehow we actually traveled quite a bit together.

We lived in you know, we did the same business school. And then we did our like internships in like Australia and in Ireland, in Boston and like throughout like all this, we like managed to kind of stick together. So yeah, it's been.

[00:07:45] Adam: And so is she from that same tiny town that you grew up in?

[00:07:48] Ben: She's not my cousin, Adam, if that's what you're implying.

[00:07:51] Adam: No, no, no. This is France, not the United States, Ben. So,

[00:07:57] Ben: She's from a neighboring town.

[00:07:59] Adam: Okay. Got it. Got it. We'll allow it. We'll allow it. And then your daughter is two and a half. Is that right? Oh, terrible twos. Very fun. We will get into that shortly. What was the decision like for you and your wife to start a family?

[00:08:17] Ben: I feel like moving to the US felt like very precarious. Like our entire lives like felt incredibly precarious. I think like my wife came in at some point on like a tourist visa. She knew she had like 30 days to find a job and like it was just incredibly stressful. Then you're in this like constant stream of like J1 visas, which are like 18 months visas that you have to like figure shit out, as you go.

And so you can never like stay for too long. Then you get like the immediate, you know, like the slightly longer version of this with an H1B visa, which is like, like three to four years. And so like, I think for most of our adult life, we felt this like sort of constant state of like, you know, precarity in a way.

And we never felt like we could like really settle all in one place and like build a family. It took us like, I think we'd been together for 10 years before like I proposed and like we got married just because yeah, it just felt like there was just so much going on, I guess first. And I think we're at this point we're like, okay.

We had a green card and so like this felt stable, we bought a house and now like, okay, wow, for the first time in our life, there's like a semblance of like stability, like this financial stability. We can like actually project ourselves out like, you know, sort of five years into the horizon.

Sort of naturally the question of like, you know having kids, I think it's like, I came on the heels of that.

[00:09:29] Adam: I forget, there was a point where you lived like a few blocks away from me. Was that the first house you bought? I can't remember if you were renting that house or you bought it. Yes. Yes. I remember we had you over for a very French wine and cheese evening in the backyard. It was lovely.

It was lovely. So I wanted to ask you about your earliest memory that you have after becoming a dad. So tell me a little bit about that.

[00:09:56] Ben: For me, the most like sort of, like vivid memory that I have is like being in the hospital, like during the entire pregnancy, I told my wife, like, look, you're doing all the hard work. Like the moment the baby's born, like.

I'm going to pull my weight. I promise. Like I'll do everything I can. Like, don't worry. Like, this is the one thing that I can't really like help you with. But the moment the baby is here, like, I promise I'll pull my weight. I'll be there for you. And then the baby came and I was like, Oh my God.

And my wife you had like all the sort of the stress and you know, all this stuff, like the delivery and I think the first night was okay, but the second night like was, you know, crying you know, like all night as you know, they tend to do at this stage. And so I was like in the bathroom, like of the hospital room in like sort of, you know, like holding her in my arms and be like, Oh my God, it begins.

Like, this is like what pulling my weight looks like when my wife is sleeping. I'm in the sitting in the shower, like with this baby that feels terrifying. So this is the most vivid memory that I have because it was this sort of realization of, you know, what I had set up for, but also this like, you know, amazement for like, what's happening in this moment.

[00:11:00] Adam: Yeah. And Noah was born in the U S right? Cause you didn't move to France until about a year ago. Yeah. Okay. Great. All right. So I want to get into Nurra a little bit. So you started Nurra based on personal experience that you mentioned earlier related to healthcare and sort of navigating care. And your wife, and I remember learning about this and this, you know, you mentioned earlier that you kind of had to take a step back from professional life for a little bit.

So I imagine that this experience, not starting neuro, but the experience of navigating the healthcare system really changed you both professionally and probably as a dad too. So tell me a little bit more about that.

[00:11:47] Ben: My wife said to have like, she had like a long string of like really challenging, like health issues. And I think over like, so the course of a couple of years, I think it gave me like a very different perspective on like sort of my career and like, you know, the, what my priorities like should be, I think, in life.

And so I think this is like the first sort of like realization you know, like that I had was just like the importance of, you know, like family and health and the things that you take for granted, I think. And and. I think so she, like, just to touch briefly on like sort of some of the challenges that she experienced, like, you know, we would wait for like three, four or five, six months for an appointment with a specialist.

And she would have like, in some cases, six minutes to the provider. So like, yeah, like a hundred seconds of talking time in this moment. And you come back, you have all those questions like, Oh my God, this doctor told us the opposite of this other doctor. Like, what do we do? And. It's so hard when like, you know, if you're working at like a tech company, like you, you're doing like 50 hours a week or 60 hours a week and you'd like give zero like mental capacity to like, you know, like, oh, let's, you know, let's bounce off ideas and like what, you know, what it could be you know, it's you realize that you need to create like extra capacity.

I think for a lot of this thing. And this is like particularly true when we had a baby. And so like, you know, like we had this baby and we're like trying to take care of this baby. Then realizing like, wow, like. We need to make space in your life. I think for for to answer like some of those questions.

So, yeah, I became my wife sort of like health advocate and like, you know, care coordinator in a way. And this sort of like helped me recenter on like both, you know, what are the right priorities for me? And it was like, I want to care for like my wife and my daughter. This is like what my priority should be.

And my second priority was like, I want like, more people to have like, you know, the type of help that like, my wife shouldn't have to like, ask for like, this should be like, a given you deserve, like someone that fights for you, the healthcare systems, like, all the time that, you know, I can free up, I should dedicate it to like, you know, building a, you know, a solution that scale that, you know, helps people fight for themselves, you know, and make sense of the healthcare system, basically in the US.

So it's kind of like this, like double revision, like the right parties, but also like, you know, outside of my family, like what how do I want to invest my time basically?

[00:14:00] Adam: Yeah. And during this like couple of year journey prior to even starting Nurra you had, you basically stepped out of Thumbtack and you had to build yourself a more flexible career path. So that's when you did the, started the EIR work and started doing advisory and just doing I guess what I would call and what other people have said in the show, like working on having a less greedy career for a period of time that gives you that flexibility.

So, yeah, it's pretty, pretty amazing. I've been very curious about Nurra because I think it could be really helpful for aging people in the U. S, especially parents like my own parents who have lots of health stuff to navigate. And oftentimes the burden falls on their kids to help them with that.

But I did want to ask you because you started this company, what? Six few months ago, six months ago. Okay. And so. Six months ago, your daughter was two. So what has starting a company with a two year old been like?

[00:15:06] Ben: It's been tough cause like both of those things are hard by themselves. So I'd like, so like having a two year old is hard and then starting a company is hard. But I think also being, one, a necessity and a blessing in a way, because I still need to help my wife with many aspects of our everyday life.

I still have to do most of the childcare and a lot of things in the house. And. So I had to find a role that was exciting, that was like financially viable. But that also allowed me to have like a flexible schedule. And that got me excited. I think a lot of what I wanted to think about also is like, what kind of dad, what kind of inspiration do I want to be like for my kids, for my daughter?

And I think like starting a company like was sort of like the right sweet spot because I can, you know, work during the day I can like. Leave at 4 to like bring my wife to a doctor's appointment to go like pick up my daughter like ride my bike with her like do some things and then like at 8 PM I can like go back and actually have like a whole bunch of like meetings with on like US time zones until like you know, 10 11 PM and so.

You know, is it like, right? Do you like work like both days and like nights? Like, no but I think it gives you like a flexibility that I think I need right now to support like the rest of my family. And also I think it's a flexibility that I feel like very grateful for. I think there are like few jobs where you can have like both like this sense of purpose and like this flexibility to accommodate like a lot of the needs that you have in your life.

[00:16:27] Adam: Yeah. And, you know, assuming that Nurra is successful, which, you know, you can't assume, but I hope it is. When your daughter's a little bit older, you'll have a really cool example to show her, Hey, there's this problem that we were experiencing and I did something about it in a meaningful way and built this thing.

And that'll be a really cool thing to talk to her about. Which is, you know, beyond like, I don't know, Bluey or something like that. so I'm curious, dads don't often talk about a lot of the feelings that come along with becoming father, mostly because I think people don't ask them.

And so I am curious to hear about some of the emotions that came up when Noah was born.

[00:17:07] Ben: Yeah. I think I touched on this like a little bit earlier, but just the depth of responsibility I think is what hit me and like the unconditional love. It was like, wow, like love my wife very much, obviously. But this is like a different type of love.

It's like, wow, like this is something that like, I will fight for like forever. This is just like something that's like, just to feel so special. And that I expected yet felt like not ready for, but also like now I'm accountable for like two lives, like my own, which was like a little trivial.

And this other thing that feels like a tremendous amount of responsibility in a way, it's like the weight of those two things, I think felt you know, like overwhelming and amazing in a way. But I think most people experience them, I imagine.

[00:17:49] Adam: Yeah. And I'm curious because you just sort of touched on this a little bit. What are some of the more surprising things that you've since discovered as a dad?

[00:17:59] Ben: Yeah I think one for me is, like, this gave me a sense of purpose and this had, like, surprising side effects. For example, I used to have this very paralyzing fear of death. I used to have, like, frequent panic attacks. I you know, like, my wife was, like, tease me for it. But like, even like, I think at some point when we were in Oakland, I was like, Oh my God, I'm having a heart attack now.

And like, I would like jump in the car and tell my wife, like, step on it. Let's go. Let's go. And like, she would drive, like, you're fine. Like, let's we'll go. Don't worry. And like, she would adjust the rear view mirror and I would be like, are you kidding me? Like step on it. And like, I would like almost like jump out the car and then arrive in the hospital and I'm like.

Actually, I feel fine. It's all good. And and like, I used to have like this, yeah, just paralyzing like fear of death. And like I've, you know, over the years there are like three things that I've noticed like have helped me. Like one is like meditation. The other thing surprisingly is like astrophysics.

I'm like a, it's kind of a space nerd. And like. This sort of like a perspective on like your life as a human, like this, like some speck of dust that you are in the universe, like for some reason it's like very soothing to me. It helps you let go of like the sense of like purpose and like this like legacy that you must leave.

It's like, you know, whoever you are, like it, it doesn't matter much in the end. Like you have just the laws of nature and that's like all that matters in a way. So it's helped me give me perspective. But the last thing is like being a dad. Like, I think my sense of purpose, like it's completely contextualized here.

It's just, this is why you matter. You matter for like, for this and like, you can let go of this fear. It's, this is what you're in for. So I've not had like a single like sort of panic attack or like, you know, a lot of those fears have are completely gone now, which I think it was kind of unexpected.

[00:19:40] Adam: That's amazing. You heard it here first folks, having a kid, the cure for panic attacks uh, having more kids. Um, well, that's really great, Ben. And those three things that you said helped you meditation, astrophysics which is an interesting one. And then being a dad. So I love all three of those.

I would say I know a little less about the astrophysics side, but I do know a bit about meditation and being a dad. So, if you were to rewind the clock a few years before Noah was born and you bumped into younger Ben, what advice would you give to the younger version of yourself about being a dad or things to know about being a dad.

[00:20:24] Ben: I think a lot of the advice that I can think of is advice that's like very like short term. like one piece of advice that I think I'm curious to get your take on this when you have like more than one kid, but for me, like when you have like one kid and you're in this like sort of absolutely like horrible phase of like the first like 3 months, you don't sleep like this will never end like this is my life for the next like 20 years now and it's so hard to get like that perspective.

And I think, you know, like, hearing and internalizing that, like, that it gets better I think is, like, something that, again, like, is, you know, a little cliche, but I think I would want, like, convey to myself is, like, as hard as it may be, like, the sleep deprivation, like, you know, all those things, it gets better, like much more quickly than you think.

And I think that's the perspective. If we think about having a second kid, I feel like my perspective will be like so different because now I have like, you know, I have more perspective on like the time scale that we're in. It's like, oh, like, yeah, the nights are horrible. Black. In three weeks, it'll be marginally better and all those things.

So, that's the first one. The second one is like invest in sleep. And this was like, you relate to sleep deprivation. Maybe I have an obsession with this. I should talk to my therapist about it. But I was paranoid about sleep. The one thing that I haven't mentioned is we had a kid and then we decided to move across the world, basically with like a two months old we're in the midst of like my wife's health issues and all those things.

And so. While my wife was nine months pregnant, like I was packing containers, like going out to the Pacific Ocean, moving our entire lives, selling our house, like doing all those like sort of crazy things, buying a house remotely, we just in France that we saw like on the zoom call. And so like incredibly stressful, like in the middle of those, like having a kid who's like a two month old, basically.

And so…

[00:22:06] Adam: In the midst of the pandemic too, is this all happening ish? Oh, okay. Okay. Well, it's still bubbling under the surface. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:22:16] Ben: But yeah. And so like. I was paranoid. I was like, Oh my God, like, you know, my life is going to be like, particularly miserable because we're like packing all these things. We have like the cat, the dog to figure out I, you know, we should make sure that like, we should invest in sleep.

We should do everything we can to make sure that like we get enough sleep because I hear all those horror stories, like so many, like so much tension you know, with parents, like seems to be attributed to like lack of sleep and all those things. And so, I read like four books on like, you know, baby sleep, all the different like methodologies, the clinical research, like everything that I could and everyone has like them psychophilosophy for like sleep and what you should do and all those things.

But like, And I don't know, I'm sure there's like a big share of like luck, but what we did, like the routine that we created, like all the things that we did, like, really paid off for us. Like, no, I was sleeping like 12 hours a night starting at like three, four months. And we didn't have to resort to like drastic, like sleep training, letting her cry, like, you know, the whole night or anything like that.

But. This was the lifeline that we had. It was like, at least we have our nights. And the fact that we were able to like have this like early, I think like saved us. And so doing everything you can to like, you know, maximize, I think your sleep, like for us, like paid off. And I see a lot of friends who like, didn't take sleep seriously.

Whatever that means for you and your principals. And like, I see them like, you know, paying that debt, like two, three, four years, like down the line, basically.

[00:23:33] Adam: Well, one thing I can say about that, Ben, is if you end up having a second kid, don't assume that kid's going to sleep as well as Noah did,

otherwise you might be in for it.

[00:23:43] Ben: I'll read more books.

[00:23:44] Adam: More books, more books. That's it. That's the key. No, I mean, you mentioned a couple of really good things there.

One is this idea of it getting better, I had a guy named Martin Glover on the podcast recently he talked about this concept of this too shall pass, which is like whatever mode you're in, if it's really terrible, if it's really great, like you're going to move past that mode at some point, it's going to change for the better, for the worse, there's ups and there's downs.

And so this idea that like, yeah, it does get better. I think, especially repeating that mantra to yourself when you're in the moment where you're like, Oh my God, what am I doing? I'm so tired or whatever. It gets better. And then the idea of, you know, focusing on sleep and kind of having that routine.

It's very helpful. What about advice that you would tell younger Ben to ignore?

[00:24:38] Ben: I'm telling you, maybe I'm obsessed with like sleep. But the one thing that I use, like, that would find like very irritating is people who'd like, Oh, enjoy your sleep now. It's going to get horrible. Like, that's just not helpful at all.

Like, you know, just don't tell me this. This is not helpful. They're just adding to my stress. It's not funny to me. Give me like helpful advice, like how should I capitalize on this moment that I have now? Should I read more books? Which books should I read?

You know,

[00:25:00] Adam: Yeah. Parents love to like, make other people anticipate the misery of becoming a parent, but you know, it's not that bad.

[00:25:06] Ben: It's a form of payback. It feels like,

[00:25:08] Adam: Yeah, exactly.

[00:25:09] Ben: Maybe a later realization is I think when my daughter was born, I had this great sense of purpose and I felt like I was trying to help my wife and my daughter. And I had like, you know, perhaps like a little bit of like this like sort of savior complex and I was like, oh my God, this is my purpose.

I'm like helping people and you know, the Jesus of this family. And, you know, I had this like, I think impression of like what my new role should be in the family. And I think it took me maybe. You know, a little bit of time to realize how important it is not to forget yourself, like both from like a health standpoint, like invest in yourself, like put on your like oxygen mask, like before helping others, like type of thing.

And I, see a lot of that today, like, you know, how can you expect to regulate the emotions of a two year old if you can't even like regularly your own emotions, right? So, so invest in yourself, do what you have to do. It's like being that mindset where you can like.

actually help your child like regulate their emotions. And same thing around like, professional development, personal development, like, you know, don't forget. So like this, don't create an entire identity that's like wrapped up around like your kid, because when the kid is 20, like then you lose completely your identity.

Right. And like, what kind of role model do you want to be? You want to be someone who like inspires them, like a number of dimensions. Right. And I think This definitely like for the first year, perhaps of like Noah's life, I think was so wrapped up into like, you know, being this like caretaker that like I completely lost myself.

And I think I lost perspective on what I think it means to be a great dad from that lens.

[00:26:29] Adam: Wow. That is a really great advice. Thank you. I haven't had a two and a half year old in a very long time. So I'm curious, what are the two and a half year olds reading these days? Or rather, what are you reading to her? What, your favorite book to read to your daughter

[00:26:43] Ben: We're big fans of Bluey. And so like we read a lot of Bluey. Right now we're also a big fan of Cluck O'Clock. It's a book about like chickens that count the hours. So now I was like learning how to count. And so like, this is a big, we read this like three to four times a day.

[00:26:59] Adam: Have you memorized it yet?

[00:27:01] Ben: Yes, I feel like this is like an accomplishment, like when you can like turn the page, not look and like read the entire book, you feel a moment of like, you know, some pride.

[00:27:09] Adam: I could do that with several of my kids books. The longer the better, which is amazing. Then you're just mind wanders as your mouth is still moving. So, okay. Bluey and Cluck o'Clock. We will link to those two. I'm gonna check this out. Sounds like a real page turner. I want to talk a little bit about the French.

Not versus US, but just the different parenting philosophies. Cause I'm always very curious about this when I talk to folks and especially it's interesting for you because you've had this perspective of kind of being in both places and like, you know, you had a young daughter there and then now, you know, in France.

And so I had this guy named Ty Degrange on the show and he talked about all of these books that he had read on the French parenting philosophy, think his favorite one was called Bringing Up Bebe. And so as you, an actual living, breathing French person who has lived in both places, how would you describe the differences in parenting between the U S.

[00:28:09] Ben: Yeah, I'm a big fan of the book, first of all, as well everything in that book is like, it's true to be, I think it romanticizes a little bit. It's like the Emily in Paris of like French parenting, you know.

Adam: Well, I read that it was written by a U. S. journalist. And I was like, well, that's interesting.

Ben: There's that. But I think like there is some truth to it in terms of like the fundamental like differences and perspectives. My view of it, and going to stereotype here, perhaps a little bit, but we've taken certain like bits of like both parenting styles, like in France there is really this thinking, I think, in general, again, a generalization, but that the baby should fit within the constraints of the family.

And so the family has like a routine has certain like set of rules and the baby just becomes like a part of the family and like should abide by like those rules and should be like considered as, you know, a member of the family but again, like, just an extension of it. Whereas I think in the U.S sometimes, like, the family, like, reorients itself and its rules to cater to, like, to the child, basically. And so you have this concept, I think, is, like, a key, sort of, concept that's talked about in the book is le cadre which is like the framework, essentially the frame. And this is like a big part of French parenting is you have this like hard set of boundaries.

So you're like really strict on those, like, have like real, like natural consequences. And within this, like, frame, then you can give, like, sort of full permission to your child, basically. And I think this is, like, a really powerful concept. It's, like, those are the rules of the house. Like, everything else is, like, fair game.

But, like, those are, like, non negotiable, basically. And we're, like, we're really firm with those. And I think that's, like, one concept, I think really, like, resonates, at least, like, to us personally. I think French parents, also, in general are also really attached to not losing sight of like their own like identity as people and not again, like wrapping up their entire identity around like parenting basically.

And so there's like this strong desire for individuality for like quickly, like resuming your like normal activities as an adult, like after having a kid. And so like, that's a big part of like the French culture. And I can sort of like relate to like this other piece, I think that I have observed with sort of American culture is like sometimes.

You know, American parents like will out compete each other for like how much like suffering they're willing to go through like, Oh, yeah. Well, I wake up at 5am to bring my kids like three hours. Oh, yeah. Well, I go to like the top chess class, you know, and France is a little bit of like the opposite was like, Oh, yeah.

Oh, like my kid, like, no. I just let them like play in the backyard. I'd lock the door for three hours and I drink Rose with my friends, you know? And, but there's a little bit like this pride in like, I'm maintaining my identity, whereas I think in the U S there's a little bit of this pride for like, here's like how much of a sacrifice I'm willing to like make for my kid basically.

[00:30:55] Adam: It's not necessarily that one or the other of those is like the right way to do it. But I do find that maybe something that kind of incorporates both of those feels like a nice middle ground, which is like, don't lose too much of your own identity, but also don't lock your kid in the backyard and drink rosé for three or four hours.

I mean, unless, you know, unless your backyard is amazing, which it might be in France, so. So you mentioned that French concept where you're kind of really strict on certain guardrails and boundaries. And then within that kids have unlimited autonomy. What's like an example of like a ground rule or like a strictness that they either talk about in the book or like a French parent might, you know, impose?

[00:31:32] Ben: Mealtimes are a big one. Like dinner like in France is like a lot more like religious, I think than like in the U. S. It's like this moment of like communion where like everyone gets together. There's like typically time it's, you know, like 8 p. m. Like you're at the table, like with everyone.

Rise, I think my first experience in the U S had a pen pal in Racine, Wisconsin and like, this is like a bit of a cultural shock. Cause I was 16 at the time and it was like, Oh, we're going to do like a great dinner. Like altogether. And I was like, kind of like a, it felt like a picnic to me.

Like everyone, like just grab a slice of bread, like, you know, bite, like a salad, a piece of salad and an apple. And I was like, that's dinner. Like, you know, this felt like a, it's like sacrilegious. I think for me when I like dinner was like just this thing where like, you know, everyone sits down

And so this is an example where I think. A lot of parents are real strict. You have to be home. You have to be like at the table, you have to be like bathed, for example, depending the age, like at 8:00 PM and that's when like, you know, that's the time you have together. And if you're not there, then like you just don't eat basically.

And so you have those hard rules, like after that, before that you can just go play with friends. You can do whatever you want. Like at eight you're sitting at the table, you're ready to eat, you're clean and all those things. So that's a, I think a pretty key moment.

[00:32:42] Adam: And at nine o'clock the door locks and they have to spend the night outside. Um, I do like that about mealtime though. This idea that's kind of like a sacred, you've so much other stuff going on during the day that's nice to have that as like a sacred time. And I would agree for many people in the U S it's not really all that sacred anymore. So, okay. I wanted to ask you about management and kids. And so you were a manager before your daughter was born. You're a VP, you managed people, you were a leader at Thumbtack. And I'm curious now you're a startup founder. Would you say that there are any parallels between becoming a dad and your management style, like, how would you compare or what have you learned from one of those things to kind of influence the other?

[00:33:38] Ben: I think there's like a lot of parallels and even like, I think parenting management, but even like, I think like couple communication, it feels like there's a lot of things where, you know, I'll read like a parenting book and like try to apply something to like Noah. And then I was like, actually that would also apply nicely to my wife or like to my direct report.

Right. And like a lot of things around, I think that the basics of communication, I feel like working with a tabulator, you're working with like the building blocks of communications. I think you have to be very deliberate in like the way you validate their emotion, the way you like, you know, hear them, the way you make space for things, the way you, you know, realize that you know, like how capable they are of this particular thing that you're asking of them in that particular moment because of the context.

So I think you're forced to recognize like, you know, the constraints, the communication concerns that you have. And when you have an adult in front of you, I think like those constraints are like abstracted. You have this much more like elaborate and complex sort of mode of communication. And, but I feel like talking with a toddler, like forces you to like, be more mindful of those, like, you know, building blocks of communication and realize how, you know, perhaps you have a spouse that is going through like a tough moment because of something at work or something like that.

And it's realizing like, Oh, wow. Like what this person needs right now is emotional, like validation and I think it's something that you don't really do when you're like talking from like adult to adult, because you're never forced to like be that mindful because the other adult will like, you know, compensate for your lack of, you know, like empathy or whatever it is when a child will not.

And will scream until you figure it out. But I feel like it's, I, this is maybe just my impression, but I feel like it's made me a better, like a listener and communicator because I'm able to like, you know, hone in like those like building blocks and I've had to like go back to the basics, I guess, of communication because of this.

[00:35:22] Adam: Yeah.

I think you also maybe mentioned performance reviews, not as effective with with a two year old.

[00:35:27] Ben: Yes, still working on that. But yeah.

[00:35:32] Adam: Speaking of performance reviews and speaking of what you just mentioned, it partnerships really important when you have kids, but also I think it's impossible to agree a hundred percent of the time with your spouse. And so I'm curious, where's an area where you and Gael don't necessarily agree or have the same philosophy?

[00:35:52] Ben: I have to say, I feel incredibly fortunate because I actually think that we were lying like 99.9 percent of the time. So like what we disagree on is like, nuances of how you apply like a certain like parenting philosophy. And so I felt very like, very lucky in that sense. can't imagine like how tough it must be to have like different philosophies, which is definitely true.

Totally okay. But it's like, it must be tough to like find a milligram, like all the time. So I think for us, it's like, perhaps some more like I tend to believe more firmly on like natural consequences like then my wife. And so like, if Noah, I doesn't want to get dressed that, like, I'll just walk out back.

Okay. Well, I'm going to take care. And so I'll leave the house and like, she'll chase me like, but naked, you know, the front yard. you know, I believe this is when my wife, I think, will, you know, try to lean more on like, I don't know, perhaps like being more empathetic in a different way or something like that.

So it's like a nuance, I think, but yeah.

[00:36:46] Adam: Yeah. I think I'm in the Ben philosophy there. I, the number of times that my son went to daycare in his pajamas from the night before, a lot of times, let's just say he loved those pajamas and you know what, he wears clothes now. Turns out it was fine. It was all fine. But that's great. So you know, you built an entire career in technology for, you know, well over a decade, almost two decades now.

When you think about the relationship that you want Noah to have with technology as she gets older. What is that relationship?

[00:37:22] Ben: I think technology is obviously a big piece of my life building an AI company I have like a, you know, server rack in my garage, like to manage like the, my home automation with like, you know, two dozen like services running. So I think it is like a big part of my life and I think it's a big part of, you know, the future I think.

And so I want my kids, my daughter to like be comfortable with technology. I want her to like see the beauty of it. I love tinkering. And so I love the idea of like, you know, like exposing her to like some of the tinkering that I do and like the magic that technology can bring, I think sometimes, but I'm also like a big fan of like the outdoors.

I grew up again, like, you know, spending a lot of time outdoors in the countryside. I lived in Tahoe. I live in the French Alps right now. I love going like backcountry skiing. I love like a lot of this. And so my hope is that I will love her no matter what, first of all, obviously. But my hope is that she can find, I think, the beauty in, like, both is that, like, she can, like, you know, find this, like, sort of genuine sort of passion for, like, the beauty of the outdoors and, like, finding this as kind of a quiet place that recharges you and connect this to, like, you know, the power of technology, I guess, in a way.

[00:38:30] Adam: Yeah, I love that. I love that. It's also going to be amazing to see what, you know, she's only two and a half. It'd be amazing to see what technology enables by the time that she's five or 10 or something like that. So very, very curious. Yes.

[00:38:46] Ben: Whatever that means.

[00:38:48] Adam: Now that you're a dad, what are some of the ways that you recharge your batteries or center yourself?

[00:38:54] Ben: Listening to this podcast, of course, that's my go to.

[00:38:57] Adam: It's what everyone says.

[00:38:58] Ben: What's the name of the podcast again? I'm just kidding.

[00:39:00] Adam: It's called tech dad. I have a friend who says that it's called tech dad because she can't ever remember.

[00:39:08] Ben: I love mountain biking. I'm a big mountain biker. So mountain biking, snowboarding I'm also a big rock climber. It's like a lot of those sports.

I don't have like time for a lot of those, but like whenever I can, you know, also like, you know, I'll go biking you know, in the woods nearby or, you know, go snowboarding in the mountains when there's fresh snow. So that's my happy place. This is what, you know, recharges me for weeks after. So.

[00:39:29] Adam: Yeah. I wanted to actually come back. I want to deviate for a second and come back to the server rack and the home automations. What is give me a glimpse into the automations that exist in your household. What's one you're most proud of?

[00:39:41] Ben: My wife loses her phone all the time, and it drives me nuts. She's like, have you seen my phone? And I never know where her phone is. And we are constantly late because she forgets her phone. And so now I have an automation where like, there's a big button in the kitchen. And like, she just has to press the button and it basically like I asked Chad GPT to like come up with like a roast, like sort of sentence of what her phone, like might say just like, Oh, you've lost me again. It's like, Oh you must love hide and seek for always like, you know, hiding in the house or remember the last time we spent the day together?

Me neither. And so the phone, like a randomly say this, like in the house and my wife hates it, but it's also like so useful that she's like, Oh, and so, so this is like, this has been like a pretty fun one.

[00:40:26] Adam: So the phone in its attempt to help you locate it will say a snarky comment generated by ChatGPT.

[00:40:33] Ben: I basically like max out the volume and like, I'll read out loud, like real loudly, like this, like a random sentence, basically,

[00:40:38] Adam: This is amazing. I absolutely love this home automation. Okay. Now on a more serious note, I'm curious what is a mistake that you've made as a dad?

[00:40:49] Ben: I think a one that like I'm still making today is just like, I think, The expectations that you have for a 2 year old, you know, like, I think sometimes like, oh, my God, why can't you get dressed? I just told you like 17 times like, well, it's a 2 year old, you know, she has big feelings and that's just how things are at this age.

I think it's like, it's so easy to lose perspective. And so I think, too high expectations not setting up my child for success. I think is one that unfortunately I make constantly and yeah, I'm trying to be better at the other one that I talked about is just like no outlet for my own emotions.

I think you know, like just realizing that. You know, forcing myself to be more mindful of like where I'm at. And my wife and I have this great system. I think a few parents like have this as well, but like, we can like, you know, like we can tap out so either like either of us can like tap out. So you're like, okay, look, I'm really sorry.

Like I, I realize that I'm no longer able to do like effective parenting and I just need help or the other parent can actually like chime in and like just tap on their shoulder and be like, Hey, trust me. I think you need like some space for yourself right now. Like I got this. And so I think it's been really helpful thanks to my wife.

But you know, a mistake that I've made is just like not realizing like this ethic and being caught up in my own emotions, being too deep and not realizing that I, you know, I need to find space to again, like, take care of myself to be able to take care of my daughter.

[00:42:05] Adam: Yeah. Oh, I love that. I love that. Last couple of questions for you. So you worked at some pretty intense startups Lyft. Obviously we were moving a million miles an hour, Thumbtack. I'm sure now you're starting a company. How do you relate to the startup hustle culture mentality or the founder mode or, things like that?

How do you balance that? Or, what's your kind of approach there?

[00:42:29] Ben: I think it's a balance. I think fondly of those days when we're working together, like this is still like, you know, just, it's the mode that I enjoy most. It's like the almost like all consuming and like mode, like raw building. This is when like you make magic happen. It feels like this is when like one person is worth like a thousand and like, just like true magic happens.

And so I get. Incredibly energized by this. I also see like how incredible things can be built. when you're in this mode. But I also, like I said earlier, I think I'm putting this in context of what is the capacity that I want to dedicate to this. And so. It's because I look at like, you know, the pie chart of my life and my, you know, my time, my attention.

And it's like, well, I got to fill that with like, you know, keeping my wife healthy and keeping my daughters like fulfilled. And then whatever's left, I will dedicate it fully to like, you know, like this obsession for like the mission that we have at Nurra and all those things.

But I will try to enforce like hard boundaries for rest of my life. So It's been a little bit odd to like switch back, but you know, like this, like, like all consuming thing and like you power off and you're like, Oh, well now I'm like doodling things and I have to force myself to like, just not think back all the crazy things that are happening like right now.

But I feel like I'm still able to like, blend the two. And so, yeah, it's a mix.

[00:43:48] Adam: All right. Well, my final question for you before our lightning round, how can people be most helpful to you right now in your journey?

[00:44:00] Ben: Anyone who disagrees with anything that I've said has like, sort of coaching advice, parenting advice based on the thing that I've said, like, I'll take it. So, let me know. Always happy to learn from my mistakes. And then yeah, anyone who's navigating, so like, complex health challenges, you know, complex conditions and needs help sort of navigating the health journey you know, we'd love to, to help with Nurra.

We're early, but yeah, we're busy. Like the, you know, the best friend nurse that's helping you hack the healthcare system is how we describe it. So,

[00:44:29] Adam: Awesome. And the product is live, right? Beta testing or it's people can use it. It's live. Awesome. Awesome. Well, Ben, I will link to Nurra so everyone can check it out. I am also curious to check it out myself. So cannot wait.

So, all right, rules of lightning round. I ask you a question and you say the first thing that comes to mind and then we move on. It's a very judgment free zone, maybe a modicum of judgment.

[00:44:55] Ben: Can I like say a few words for like why my answer.

[00:44:59] Adam: You are totally allowed. It actually, the reality is there are no real rules here for lightning round. So it's totally up to you. Okay. The first question, what is the most indispensable parenting product that you have ever purchased?

[00:45:13] Ben: Oh we love our Nanit baby cam. Amazing.

[00:45:17] Adam: Okay. What is the most useless parenting product you've ever purchased?

[00:45:22] Ben: The same friend who recommended Nanit was like, Oh, you got to get like that. Keekaroo, like Keekaroo peanut changing station. It's amazing. It's so easy to clean. This is like a 150 bucks, like a, like changing mat. And like, we were like, that's okay. We bought like a 18 one on Amazon when we moved to France and that's literally the same.

So like, do not pay a hundred dollars for changing mat.

[00:45:43] Adam: No. Okay. What is the youngest age that you can feed a kid a baguette?

[00:45:49] Ben: Straight like day they're born. They actually like roll them in like bread crusts you know, bread crumbs at the hospital.

[00:45:56] Adam: They give it to them at the hospital to use as a pacifier when you're in, when you're in France. Is that right? Okay. Okay. The ideal day with your daughter involves which one activity?

[00:46:07] Ben: I'll have to say, yeah, like, biking. I'm a big mom biker. And so I love like going biking with my daughter. She's now the age where she can follow me on like little trails, which is really cool. And then two building blanket forks with her. It's a favorite of mine.

[00:46:20] Adam: What is the most frustrating thing that has ever happened to you as a dad?

[00:46:25] Ben: We were traveling back to the US because we had some like paperwork to do. And we were like boarding a plane and like Noah just like pooped herself, like everywhere. And I was like carrying her and like, I just had like poop everywhere. Boarding a plane, like sleep deprived for 18 hours was like, I cannot do this.

I almost just like put her on the seat and like walked out, you know? Luckily I like got my shit together, but yeah,

[00:46:48] Adam: That sounds like the thing of nightmare fuel. Okay. What is your go to dad wardrobe?

[00:46:54] Ben: Let's see, like, Lyft swag. Like, I'm surprised I'm wearing, like, a Lyft t-shirt. Like, I have a lot of, like, lift and, yeah, hoodies I have an entire box of like the generations of Lyft swag. Like it's like in a closet somewhere, but it doesn't come out very much. Someday it might be worth something. We'll see. How many parenting books do you have in your house?

Ben: We probably have like including the Kindle versions, like, I don't know, like maybe 20, probably

[00:47:17] Adam: How many have you read cover to cover?

[00:47:20] Ben: like 12, 15, I mentioned like five and sleep alone. So like, you

know,

[00:47:24] Adam: I'm impressed. This is a large number of books relative to the average dad. So congratulations. What has been the favorite age for your daughter so far?

[00:47:34] Ben: 14 years old. It's the… cannot wait.

[00:47:39] Adam: Oh, you'll see it in seven years.

[00:47:41] Ben: Yeah, no, like I think right now is like really amazing. Like you get to like actually like build things that are like engaging in two ways. And yeah,

[00:47:49] Adam: What is the least favorite age?

[00:47:51] Ben: Sub, like six months I feel like is just like hard.

[00:47:55] Adam: Have you started telling dad jokes yet? And if so, how many do you tell on average in a given day?

[00:48:01] Ben: I just, I've never stopped. I think I'm, you know, never like reached quite like the mastery level that you're at, but yeah. I think I was born to be a dad, to the despair of my wife, I think, to be clear. Yeah.

[00:48:14] Adam: It’s always to the despair of your significant other. That's the job. I don't know if your daughter watches a whole lot of TV, but what is the most difficult TV show that you have had to sit through?

[00:48:25] Ben: She doesn't watch a lot of TV. We just started like Bluey because it's like five minutes. But we tried like a few things. We tried I'll just like a side question. Like we tried like a few like Disney's. I was like, Oh, that's going to be like great. But all the Disney's are horrible. Like Nemo, the first, the third minute of the movie, the mom dies.

Like half of the Disney's like the, one of the parents dies in the first like five minutes of the movie. This is absolutely insane.

[00:48:48] Adam: Not good. Not good. Do you have a favorite kids movie?

[00:48:53] Ben: No, like I said, there's a lot of Bluey right now,

[00:48:56] Adam: Yeah, a lot of Bluey. Okay.

[00:48:57] Ben: I love Bluey. Yeah. I think blue is great because for those who don't know blue, I think it's amazing. It's as a parent, it's also really good. And there's a lot of like tongue and cheeks of like references, like for the parents that make it really enjoyable too actually.

[00:49:09] Adam: You know, my kids were kind of too old when Bluey became popular, but I gotta find a way to work into the Bluey world. We'll see. Maybe with my niece. We'll see. How long can a piece of food sit on the floor and you will still eat it?

[00:49:22] Ben: Well, let's see the Roomba runs twice a week. So it'd be like an average like three days.

[00:49:28] Adam: Love that. Do you have a favorite nostalgic movie that you cannot wait to force Noah to watch?

[00:49:36] Ben: Yes, Harry Potter. My wife and I are like big Harry Potter fans. Like we watch it religiously, you know, like twice a year at least.

[00:49:44] Adam: Love that. Okay, now finally probably not super relevant because you live in the mountains of France, but what is your take on minivans?

[00:49:53] Ben: If I may, I will like expand the question a little bit. I'm a huge fan of RVs. And this is like, we rented like RVs A couple of times with my wife, this is like our honeymoon. We went to like Alaska and huge fan of RVs and actually think that the RV industry will be completely disrupted by self-driving cars.

Like, this is my dream. Like, imagine like you get with your kids in an RV and your presence, like Disneyland, Los Angeles. And like, then you turn around and you play games, you shower, you go and sleep. Like, it doesn't matter how long it takes. Like you just get to play games. That's like a, the world will be a different place.

[00:50:23] Adam: Wow, man, that's amazing. The future, Ben, the future. So, not big on minivans, but RVs, which are like a minivan on steroids. We're okay with. All right. Well, Ben, this concludes the Startup Dad podcast. Thank you so much for joining me today. So great to chat with you.

[00:50:45] Ben: Thank you so much. That I'm so great.

[00:50:47] Adam: Thank you for listening to today's conversation with Ben Lauzier. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe, share, and leave me a review on Apple or Spotify. It'll help other people find this podcast. Startup Dad is a Fishman AF production with editing support from Tommy Harron.

You can join a community of over 11,000 subscribers and stay up to date on my thoughts on growth, product, and parenting by subscribing to the Fishman AF newsletter at www.fishmanafnewsletter.com. Thanks for listening, and see you next week.