Four Companies And Three Kids | Pouyan Salehi (Dad of 3, co-founder Scratchpad, PersistIQ, Lera Labs, StackMob)

[00:00:00] Pouyan: I think technology can in many ways drive lots of good. And so what I want them to have is a comfort with it, a familiarity with it to say, okay, I can use technology in whatever field they choose to go down or whatever it is that they want to do and work with it.

Not be scared of it, not feel like it's going to come and do these negative things now it may, but ultimately say, hey, this is a tool that I could use both personally, but also to apply and maybe make the changes that I want to make in the world, that'd be great if we can get them to that point,

[00:00:33] Adam: Hello, and welcome to Startup Dad, the podcast where we dive deep into the lives of dads who are also leaders in the world of startups and business. I'm your host, Adam Fishman. In today's conversation, I sat down with Pouyan Salehi. Pouyan is the CEO and co-founder of Scratchpad, a company that's trying to take the busy work out of sales to help sales reps be more productive and do what they're best at.

He has founded three other companies, including Persist IQ, which was acquired by Wishpond, and StackMob, which was acquired by PayPal. In addition to being a serial founder and entrepreneur, he is also a husband and a dad to three kids. In our conversation today, we spoke about his life growing up, coming to America from Iran, and restarting his life with his parents.

The idea that there's no perfect time to start a family, how each of his kids is different and requires different parenting strategies, and advice he'd give his younger self about how to relax and appreciate the new way your life comes together after kids. I hope you enjoy today's conversation with Pouyan Salehi.

[00:01:49] Adam: I would like to welcome Pouyan Salehi to the Startup Dad podcast. Pouyan, it is a pleasure having you here today. Thank you so much for joining me.

[00:01:59] Pouyan: Thanks for having me.

[00:02:01] Adam: All right. You are calling me from freezing cold, Minnesota where you currently live. By my count, you have founded at least four companies including your current one.

So tell me a little bit more about your professional background, your professional journey.

[00:02:18] Pouyan: Yeah. I am in Minnesota. It is cold. It's a whopping negative seven right now. So, the kids are out of school, so we'll see what happens with that. But gosh, professional journey. I have been doing startups for some time now. I think technically I counted as like on the third one, cause early on some things you work on, you're like, is this actually a startup?

Is this not, is it a company? Is it not? But , so I've been with the same co-founder for almost 12 years now. And we've done all pretty much all the companies together. And it has been one long learning experience.

[00:02:49] Adam: I'm struck by the, you've been with this co-founder for 12 years and your oldest kid, I think is, 13?

[00:02:55] Pouyan: 13. Yep.

[00:02:57] Adam: So your co-founder relationship and your oldest kid are about the same length of time, which is pretty, pretty impressive.

[00:03:04] Pouyan: Yeah. Well, that's when we first started working together officially. We've known each other probably for 14\15 years or so. But there's a very special relationship that forms, especially when you've gone through one startup with a co-founder and you choose to get into the fire again together. I think you do choose to do that again together. Yeah. So it's been a, it's been a very interesting journey having that as a track, but then also learning how to be a founder, how to be a co founder, how to be a partner a spouse, how to be a dad, you know, one time, two times, three times hence why it's a big, long learning journey.

[00:03:46] Adam: Yeah. There's a lot going on. And now you are the founder of Scratchpad tell me for just a second what Scratchpad does.

[00:03:53] Pouyan: Yeah. So we're building sales agents and ultimately it's about helping frontline sellers, primarily B2B sellers be able to sell more, spend more of their days or hours on revenue generating work and at the same time for leadership, giving them predictability. One of the things that is incredibly difficult for them today was just understanding what's going on in any one given deal or all my deals across my pipeline.

[00:04:18] Adam: Got it. Got it. So for the frontline worker, remove a lot of their busy work so they can just do the thing that they're best at closing deals.

[00:04:25] Pouyan: Exactly. Frankly, if you just remove a lot of the busy work, that is a major portion of their day to day. And then there are ways that you can actually help them along what we call the revenue generating work. And having AI do parts of that that are better and it's faster.

So, yeah, it's fun.

[00:04:41] Adam: Alright, well I want to jump all the way back in the time machine and ask you a little bit about what life was like growing up. So where'd you grow up, where are you from originally?

[00:04:50] Pouyan: Yeah. So I was born in Iran, spent the first five, six years there and it was an interesting time because it was right around the time of the revolution. And right in the middle of the Iran\Iraq war. So some of my earlier memories are actually of this um, service to air gun that was right outside our apartment in Tehran.

And that thing would just be going off at night. And yes, I have those memories of that. And then we ended up immigrating to the United States and, you know, I joke, my parents didn't get the memo to go to LA. Cause that's where most of the Persians are. We ended up in Minneapolis. So I actually grew up here and ended up leaving, I don't know, after undergrad and never thought I would be back, but recently moved back here.

But, you know, growing up In Minnesota it was an awesome experience. It was interesting because during that time, there was some backlash against Middle Easterns still, you know, I still remember some of that, but it was. It was somewhat limited in scope. I think for the most part folks here were incredibly welcoming, very friendly.

The part that that's really stuck with me though, and I think bringing it to why I'm doing startups now is you know, both my parents were engineers in Iran. And then when we came here as a typical immigrant story where you just do what you can to survive. My dad went from, you know, being a well known, well regarded civil engineer to washing dishes in the back of an Irish pub and then eventually got a job as a Domino's pizza delivery driver, and through that, we actually went through the went through the management training program, ended up buying some franchises, and me and my younger brother were along for the ride, so in a way, we've been part of understanding how business works being involved in family activities, which was work for us, primarily from a very early age.

And, you know, one store we bought in Stillwater, Minnesota, was essentially going bankrupt, and we ended up turning it around to being one of the top ranking stores in the United States. And I think for a period of time, it was the number one ranking store in the Midwest region. And so it was really cool to be on that journey together.

And I was listening to one of other guests, Tod Francis, who I've met separately and independently, but, you know, just such great framework on that side by side experience. And I was reflecting on that. And, you know, for us so much of that was just, work.

[00:07:13] Adam: Yeah.

[00:07:14] Pouyan: Yeah, so that's stuck with both me and my brother through through our experience, you know, throughout this whole time, my mom went to grad school, got a job, and she kind of took it the more stable one is as an industrial engineer at Target and had a very long, successful career there.

But I remember it was Fridays, our school would end. We would get home. She would come home from work. We would get in the car, drive an hour and a half to 1 of the stores we had at the time. And we would just be there all weekend working come back like Sunday night. So, you know, a lot of memories like that that have stuck with me.

[00:07:46] Adam: Wow. And so you were working in this, Domino's Pizza franchise at one point. cleaning stuff, making pizzas, like all of the above I imagine,

[00:07:55] Pouyan: All of the above. Yeah, I started. I think I was 9 years old when we bought the 1st store. And at 1 point, you know, the first store did not go so well. And so 1 point, it was basically the 4 of us just trying to work and keep this alive. And yeah, so I was, you know, helping make the pizzas and answering phone calls where I could.

And yeah,

[00:08:15] Adam: That's amazing. So an entrepreneur from an early age?

[00:08:18] Pouyan: Or forced labor, but either way, no,

[00:08:21] Adam: You know, we all have different interpretations, you know, I've had quite a few first generation or second generation Americans or people who've come from different places and they, you know, sometimes they talk about that immigrant lifestyle and what it took to get by.

I think your family is a really interesting example. And like both of your parents kind of had to hit the reset button and start over and rebuild the success that they'd had elsewhere.

[00:08:48] Pouyan: I appreciate it more now that I'm older and I have my own family and kids, you know, they were what, probably in their mid thirties, two kids were both well educated, successful careers, and more importantly, had all our family around and I just think, gosh, if right now we had to get up and leave and go to a completely different country with a language, we don't really speak all that well, don't really know that many people and you're right, have to hit the reset button.

That's really hard. So I think that that's 1 thing I reflect on a lot now. And, you know, with all the parenting challenges, be like, at least we don't have to deal with that. You know, yeah,

[00:09:25] Adam: Yes. Yes. A snow day is a little different than having to like flee your homeland.

[00:09:29] Pouyan: Exactly. It helps put things in perspective.

[00:09:32] Adam: Speaking of snow days and your family, you have a partner and you have three kids and your older two are kind of similar in age to mine. So tell me, how did you meet your wife and tell me a little bit about your kids?

[00:09:43] Pouyan: Funny enough in Minneapolis, although we had both left we're just both back visiting family and happened to cross paths through a mutual friend. And that was quite some time ago, like 17, 17, 18 years ago. so I've got three kids, the daughter is 13, son is 10 and another daughter who is six, although she would hear me say that like six and a half. And correct me very firmly, but yeah, it's a, you know, wide range to parent to and keeps things interesting.

[00:10:16] Adam: And, you know, your wife is also full time employed outside of the household. you mentioned she's a lawyer. I also am married to a lawyer and work in technology. So you and I we’re very similar. You have one more kid than me though. And so I'm curious, you know, two incredibly hardworking folks obviously serial founder.

Everyone kind of knows the trope about lawyers. Like It's a lot of work, like being a lawyer, you bill your time and you're sort of evaluated on how much time can you put in? How did that work with the desire to start a family?

[00:10:48] Pouyan: You know, one decision we made when I say we met my wife and I made early on we met when we were fairly young. We had our first kid when I was 29, 30 or so but we knew from very early on that family was important to us and that we wanted to start a family and have kids.

And in addition to that, the other thing we recognize is there's no perfect time. So if I look back when we actually started a family, we had no business starting a family then if you actually objectively look at it and like where we were, you know, she was still in law school. Professionally, when I moved out to the Bay Area, I started at Apple.

Before I got into doing startups and I had left Apple on a Friday to go join this startup on Monday and then on Sunday night at about 9 p. m. I found out my wife's pregnant with our first child

[00:11:39] Adam: Wow.

[00:11:40] Pouyan: And this is going from, you know, making a decent salary. Not great to almost nothing and questionable health insurance and all of that.

And, you know, I think that was a very pivotal moment for us to say, well, we're going to keep going. Cause you know, the right decision. Well, I don't know if the right, but one decision could have been, Hey, now's not the right time. Let's be more conservative. Let me not get into the startup world. I'll wait for a better time.

And yeah, the train had already left the station with me wanting to do startups and her going to law school. And we just said, yeah, we're going to have a family and we're going to make it work. Has not been easy by any means, but I think that one decision, had we not made that, that I don't know if we'd be where we are today.

[00:12:24] Adam: Yeah, wow. Yeah, there is no perfect time. I think that encapsulates it. I've talked to folks on the show who have had kids as young as their very early twenties. I've talked to some who've waited a really long time. Everyone wrestles with the same thing at some point. Right?  But yeah, I cannot believe going to law school while also being pregnant is is also kind of wild.

[00:12:47] Pouyan: Yeah, she's incredible. She gave birth in less than two weeks later, it was a complicated birth with her first one. She was in her final exams at the end of the second year.

[00:12:55] Adam: That's amazing. That's amazing. Having lived with someone who went through law school. I can only I'm I stand in awe of that tenacity. Wow. That's amazing. I know it's been a while since your oldest was born. What's the earliest memory that you have after becoming a dad?

[00:13:12] Pouyan: Well, I guess it's it leads to an interesting question. And sorry if I'm getting technical on this, but like, when do you actually become the dad?

[00:13:18] Adam: That's a great question. I've had a whole spectrum of answers.

[00:13:21] Pouyan: Really? I'm curious. What? Yeah. What? What? What? See, is there a commonly accepted answer?

[00:13:25] Adam: You know, I've heard everything from folks and when it comes to memories, I've heard everything from the second that they find out they're going to be a dad all the way to the first, you know, moment where they're holding their kid or the trip home from the hospital or something like that.

So I think it's sort of just wildly depends. But I'm just curious, like any of the above, what sticks out in your mind?

[00:13:51] Pouyan: I’ll give two moments that I think emotionally just stuck with me. The first was the first time you start hearing the heartbeat because until that point you're, you hear, oh wow, you know, you're pregnant, we're going to have a child, but it doesn't quite seem real yet.

You're like, okay, I'm going through the motions. But I remember that was one moment where like, whoa, this is, this is it's a whole separate thing here. And again, it was still hard to process. But the moment that really hit was after it's probably within, I don't know, 10 minutes of when she was born 10, 15 minutes that she was born, cause again, it was somewhat of a complicated situation, but she had come out and she was laying you know, in one of the bins and, you know, she was crying and I just put my hand on top of her head and just very was gently rubbing.

And then she just quieted down and you could tell, I don't know, it was a very special moment at that point. I was like, okay, like you're now dad to this person. And wow,

[00:14:59] Adam: Yeah. I'm curious too, dads don't often talk about some of the emotions that come around at, you know, it's somewhat taboo. We're still working on that as a society. So I'm curious, you know, now going through this with three kids, what are some of the emotions that arose for you and have they been different from kid to kid?

[00:15:21] Pouyan: Gosh, great question. Yeah, I think they have been different from kid to kid. I'd say the first one was a lot of excitement, anxiety, fear nervousness. I mean, you know, you just, you don't know what you're getting into. And there's all the classes and the books and the things that you should be doing.

And so I think it's that uncertainty that you're getting into but then I'll just fast forward all the way to the third one. It's much more just excitement and curiosity. Because with the second one, I found, gosh, like you can have such different children, such different personalities.

And that's why ultimately with the third one, I was like, who is she going to be? Like what dynamics is she going to bring to our family, to the world? That's probably a fast way of summing it up.

[00:16:10] Adam: Yeah. And I think one of the things you had mentioned is that's possibly one of the more surprising things that you discovered as a dad or something that you weren't necessarily expecting. Can you tell me a little bit more about that? Like how you, how you have to also be a dad differently to your different kids?

[00:16:27] Pouyan: Well, say this. I am still very early in that journey. And just trying to figure it out. And I guess a lot of what you hear is just being a dad, but I think there's so much nuance to that because. if you extend that further, it's being a dad to who, and yes, obviously it's, you know, your kids, but when you break that down and what it means to be a dad, I think there's some common denominators across alright we're just being a dad to your children. But ultimately, each one is so different and they have such different needs. And trying to figure all of that out at the same time across different ages and situations and requirement all of that is, it's a lot. But I think it starts with just acknowledging it and being like, okay, well, how do I be the best that I possibly can be in general to each kid when there's different group dynamics can happen. I mean, you get my middle and my youngest one together. It's a whole different. It's like a different universe than when it's the youngest and the oldest yeah, so figuring all that out.

[00:17:25] Adam: That's wild. And I did want to ask too, because I'm on the cusp of this. You have a teenager now. Let's hope that she doesn't watch. She might be horribly embarrassed of this conversation. Just pretend it didn't happen. But I'm curious, like what is parenting a teenager so far been like?

[00:17:42] Pouyan: We're on the very, like you said, we're on the cusp of it. And so it feels like you're about to walk into this experience where there's just stuff that's going to be popping left and right. You have no idea, but I would say so far knock on what so far it's actually been really pleasant.

And what I mean by that is, you know, starting to see your child, you know, you go through this process of attachment for many years when they're first born all the way. I don't know, maybe, you know, sometime between 7 to 10 years old and then it kind of starts transitioning to very quickly to detachment.

And I feel like when they start hitting this age, you start seeing that full detachment even more. And so I think we're just on the very, very early stages of getting down that road and understanding it. And so, I don't know, I, you know, I think we're all just trying to figure it out together.

But the one thing that helped is recognizing that at that stage, there's so many, the emotions and hormones and things that play that not to react in certain ways when things are said or not said and just recognize, hey, that's just somebody that's going through that process and developing as a person and trying to figure out their own boundaries and what have you.

So I think, yeah, just figuring it out.

[00:19:02] Adam: I'm going to take that under advisement as a person on the cusp of having a teenager, but that's a very helpful advice. I wanted to also, speaking of advice, if you could rewind the clock 13 years or 13 and change to the time right before you have your daughter, your first kid and you bump into younger Pouyan, what advice would you give yourself?

[00:19:23] Pouyan: Relax. Don't try to do it all. And, you know, I don't know how to articulate this in the right way, but I'll do my best. It's. Looking back, I would say, be ready for the fabric of your life to completely tear apart, but very quickly then come back together. And when it does come back together, it's going to create bonds and structures in ways that just didn't exist before, but you can't try to hold on to what was there.

And so I think it's recognizing that there is this massive shift that's happening and just go with it. It's like getting tossed by a massive wave while you're surfing and just like, okay, just let it go. You're going to get tumbled a little bit, but then you're going to resurface. Cause I think.

There was a period of time, you know, we had so much going on. I was just launching a startup. My wife was still in law school. And in some ways it was like, we got to keep this train going and have a kid that just fits into this thing versus recognizing that, no, the whole fundamental equation the equation is fundamentally changed.

The structure had changed. I feel like we probably spent some time fighting that versus just being like, cool, let's just accept it. And there's going to be some radical shifts that happen. You know, I do think change is just not easy, like radical change like that isn't easy to adapt to that fast.

[00:20:43] Adam: Yeah. So don't try to hold on to what it was before. Embrace the beauty of the new tapestry that's coming together.

[00:20:52] Pouyan: Exactly. And some of them may parallel to what it was before, but a lot of it, a lot of it does change.

[00:20:56] Adam: Yeah, yeah. Cool. I don't know if your parents or other extended family members were dispensing tons of advice to you, but is there anything that somebody told you that you would tell younger you to ignore?

[00:21:12] Pouyan: I don't recall getting a lot of advice or people around me that were like, you should do this or you shouldn't do that. But I would say that overall, it just, it felt like, I don't know if it was a function of being in the Bay Area. That was like this, but it just felt like even from the moment your child is born is like there are things you must do.

You have to be in this class or like you have to bring your six month old to like this development class so that they're on this track and they get to that thing and what have you. And I feel like, you know, in some ways it's still relevant now as they're older. And this is going to sound overly basic, but it's just quality time, like all they really need is love.

That's so much more important than that, you know, making sure they hit this class and they have this snack on this time and this thing at that point. And I almost feel like you, you lose that perspective on, it's just about them feeling cared for and loved and supported much more so than all those other things.

So yeah, that's what I'd probably say

[00:22:17] Adam: You've mentioned a couple of times now you lived in the Bay Area and all three of your kids were born and partially raised in the Bay Area. How long ago did you move back to Minnesota?

[00:22:28] Pouyan: Just a few years ago. Yea.

Adam: Okay. And have you noticed, you know, this is sort of a digging a little deeper on your last answer there, but have you noticed that there is a very different mentality or approach to parenting Bay Area versus you know, Minnesota, like it, you know, you kind of described like his intensity in the Bay Area and I haven't lived with my kids anywhere else but I grew up elsewhere. And so I'm very curious your observations around this, like coastal San Francisco, not asking you to elaborate on pros and cons or anything, but what are you noticing as the differences in what other parents bring to the table or kind of your parental involvement here in the Bay Area versus there in a Minnesota?

[00:23:17] Pouyan: It's really hard to describe. I've tried this but yes you can feel it. I mean, it's almost to the point you can almost cut it with a knife. There's a certain, I don't want to necessarily say intensity because that there's an intensity that I think exists with, you know, anywhere where you have parents that care about their kids and want them to succeed. But it's just, the edges are a little bit less sharp here. And I think that can make a big difference all around. I've certainly noticed it. I’ve talked to a lot of folks who have left the Bay Area that have had kids as well.

And I think a big part of it is you don't realize the number of micro stressors that are on you when you're there.

[00:23:56] Adam: Mm.

[00:23:57] Pouyan: And when you start taking these micro stressors out and there's quite a few of them that you didn't even know were there, then a pretty big shift can happen. I certainly noticed that just being.

Being able to be a little bit more present a little bit more relaxed. Again I feel like the intensity is still there in a way you can't not have that if you're building a startup, the intensity is still there, you know, still have three kids, they still have needs, but it just feels a little bit easier.

[00:24:23] Adam: That's really interesting. Have you developed any frameworks or guardrails for parenting? I'm a frameworks guy, so I love to ask this question to people.

[00:24:34] Pouyan: I love a good framework too, you know, I, I feel like I've been doing this when I say this being a dad now for 13 plus years. And I'm still trying to figure it out. There's one thing that I guess one framework I can share, which is very simple, but it's never say no to snuggles.

[00:24:55] Adam: I love that.

[00:24:57] Pouyan: And where that comes from is the intensity.

Like, I don't know what it's like to have a kid and not be doing a startup. Somehow managed roughly to time each kid with each startup that I've done, not by design.

[00:25:13] Adam: Masochism, that’s what it is.

[00:25:14] Pouyan:Yeah it's nuts. But when I say snuggles, it's generally like bedtime, put it, helping put your kids out of bed, read a book, or just lay there and talk.

And it's so easy when you're running a startup to say, well, I got to get back online. You know, we did dinner. We helped with the cleanup. I've got to respond to these things. And I found myself doing that or if I was going to put the kids down, I simply wasn't present. I was thinking about the email I've got to respond to, or the things that I need to do, or that conversation I still need to have.

And I forget when it was, but at some point I was like, what am I doing? It's another 10 minutes, five minutes, even if it's one minute, but just being completely present for that one minute and not saying, oh, sorry, I can't, you know, like dad's got work to do. So anytime, and it's still it's not easy.

It's still really hard. But anytime they ask like, okay, I can do this even if it's just for one minute. Lay there, be present and say, you know, I will get back to work and what happiness I need. But yeah, that's that simple framework is actually helped quite a bit.

[00:26:20] Adam: I love that. We may have also just come up with the title of this episode. We'll see. We'll see. Tell me how your parenting has evolved from kid to kid now that you're on number three?

[00:26:32] Pouyan: That's an interesting question because it's evolving per kid as they get older and it's evolved by kid because of where they are in the ranking. You know, let's take it if it was each kid, but at the same stage, I think by the time you get to the third one, you're just a little bit more relaxed. It's a little bit easier to know what to maybe focus on what not to focus on what to get worked up about what not to get worked up about. So I've certainly noticed that shift. And interestingly enough, I think there's a very strong parallel there to startups as well. I think it just comes with more experience, right?

You're on your third startup. Stuff's breaking all the time. Things are coming at you from all directions that need your attention. But I do think I'm a big believer in focus and that focus can really make or break a company where you put your resources your thoughts. And I think with, you know, this, the third startup we're working on now, it's, it is a little bit easier to let some of the smaller things just bounce off or slide to say, okay, no, we have to stay focused on these.

I hear it like this is really loud. It's annoying. There's a fire that's burning over here, but we're going to let that burn. Because we know there's something more important to focus on. And I think you just, you get a little bit more confident, comfortable experience as a human parenting parenting these kids.

[00:27:50] Adam: Have you found that your kids have made you better at leading teams or Has leading teams made you better at parenting or is there some sort of subtle combination of the two here?

[00:28:04] Pouyan: So what's interesting about teams is they change over time. You can't, it's really hard to change your family team.

[00:28:12] Adam: You get what you get.

[00:28:13] Pouyan: Yeah, but then you're also together for much, much longer periods of time. There are definitely examples I can think of where I have brought learnings from managing leading teams into family life. Not one to one, but I think concepts and. And yeah, I think there are definitely learnings I've brought from parenting that I have brought to the team and yeah, but I don't know if there's anything I could pinpoint right now and say, yeah, this is it and this is how I do it again, but I think, yeah, you know, at the end of the day, I know this sounds overly simplistic, but we're all just people trying to make it through the day.

And I think that concept, you learn a lot of that in parenting because you see the ups and downs and the variability that can happen to any one day. And then I think just recognizing that in your team and say, yes, you know, it's my VP of this or my director of that, but they're also people and they're going to have ups and downs and they're going to be able to show up differently.

They're probably carrying different things and they may be parents and we're all probably going through that same thing. So I think that level of empathy. At minimum is, is heightened,

[00:29:22] Adam: Yeah, I love that. We're all just, we're all just people. Building a company is a team sport. Raising a family as a team sport. You've got a partner, you've got a co-founder sometimes more, hopefully just one partner. So you gotta be on the same page as your wife, the majority of the time when it comes to parenting, but what's an area where the two of you don't necessarily agree or see eye to eye?

[00:29:45] Pouyan: Ah, experienced man there. I love how you said the majority of the time you know, luckily we are very fairly well aligned. And going back to frameworks, if you love a good framework there's a very good framework that I've used to find the right co-founder.

And hence, you know, we've been together for this many years. But I can actually trace it back to a framework that I'd applied. And doing that you could also use it for a life partner. Can't really use it with your kids because you don't get to choose who your kids are. But I think the one area we may differ is probably in snacking and in, in how we…

[00:30:22] Adam: Okay.

[00:30:22] Pouyan: I’d say that one little piece there.

[00:30:24] Adam: Tell me about snacking?

[00:30:25] Pouyan: What we eat, how we eat is a really important part of life.

And you know, one thing that exists in this culture in this society is like any birthday party you go to any kids, you know, for my six year old, they finish a soccer game and you look at what snacks are brought after the game and it is all highly processed. High sugar content and it's just, I don't know it's one of those weird things that I kind of look at.

I'm like, is there anyone else seeing this? It's like nonstop. It's like I have three games and it's like, so anyway, that part of it, I just care about a little bit more or I pay attention to it more. And you know, I do think in, in this society, there's certain types of foods that are just made so easily readable and they're packaged.

And it's like, just easy. It's the convenient thing to do to grab the snack and go and like, just snack, snack, snack. And like, Hey, might be not great to do that or make different choices. And so I think that that's one area that we, and not to say that she's for that, but I think it's I might have just slightly stronger opinions.

[00:31:26] Adam: Yea, maybe you're a little bit more of a stickler about that one thing. So.

[00:31:29] Pouyan: Don't get me wrong. I love a good candy here and there too, but I think it's. Yeah, and I think, but actually to her credit, she's been doing a lot more research on it reading and I think we're both now aligned and where we want to go with it. It's just. It's really hard to do because of societal structure that exists, or even when you go to a grocery store to make those better decisions, but we're getting there.

[00:31:50] Adam: Yeah, I am the dad that shows up with the bag of clementine oranges to the soccer game. Turns out those end up being pretty popular and you know, and they come from a tree. So it's not so bad.

[00:32:02] Pouyan: Keep that going like that, that would be awesome to see as a shift that happens kids.

[00:32:06] Adam: I plan on it. Those are often also coupled with like, you know, a Capri Sun juice box or something, but Hey, we're doing the, we're all doing the best we can. Okay. I wanted to ask, so you've been. Now three or four companies, right? We'll say that fourth one depends, right? Whether or not that a founding moment, and all deeply steeped in technology.

And before that you worked for Apple, also massive technology company. As your kids are getting older, what is the relationship that you want them to have with technology?

[00:32:39] Pouyan: Well, let me answer that question directly and then. Get to the other part, which is it's just changing so fast that it's hard to know. But ultimately I think technology can in many ways drive lots of good. And so what I want them to have is a comfort with it, a familiarity with it to say, okay, I can use technology in whatever field they choose to go down or whatever it is that they want to do and work with it.

Not be scared of it, not feel like it's going to come and do these negative things now it may, but ultimately say, hey, this is a tool that I could use both personally, but also to apply and maybe make the changes that I want to make. In the world, that'd be great if we can get them to that point,

but it's also changing so fast and in some ways, I do think that we are going to this period where change is going to be happening even faster and faster and faster.

And so I think that comfort also speaks to not just with technology, but comfort with change. And being able to adapt to different situations and and work with different types of technology as they evolve, that would be, yeah, I think if we can get them to that point, that'd be good.

[00:33:47] Adam: You know, your current company is, you know, an AI based company. Has AI found its way into your household or into your kids' lives? I don't know about maybe your older kids ?

[00:33:59] Pouyan: Yeah, it has. And, you know, it's been interesting watching , like how the schools are reacting to it as well and how, you know, the positions that they take on it. But just in, in our house, what I'll try to do is when we have conversations. You know, one of the big things I care about is curiosity, saying, if you have anything that you're curious about, like, just keep pulling on the thread, see where it takes you without feeling like it has to mean something.

And one thing that has been incredible is, on my iPhone, I've made the quick access button straight to chat GPT. So you just hold the button and then you can talk. So anytime a question comes up just saying, Hey, like, you know, I have a perspective on it. Here's what I think. But why don't we dig into that further?

And so at times, you know, if we're on a we're just hanging out, my son will have a question. My daughter will have a question and we'll just be like, all right, well, let's ask AI and see how it goes. And then I try to encourage them to ask follow up questions. And I think at first, they're kind of like, wow.

Like you just talk to this thing and it's responding back. And so that's been really cool to see.

[00:35:00] Adam: Yeah what I found too, and and again, my kids are similarly aged to your two older ones. I found that it's been very helpful for me to things into the language that my kids can understand, take some very complex topics and distill them into something that a nine year old can grok or a 12 year old.

And that's been really, really interesting to me because it's coming up with ways of describing things that my brain would have never gone to analogies, similarity, like, it's very helpful in that regard. That's been really interesting.

[00:35:37] Pouyan: No, that’s a, that's a great point because we do go down these paths and we're like, whoa, okay, this is kind of testing my limits of knowledge.

I think one conversation we were having went deep into atomic structures and chemistry and physics all topics I love, but I was like, okay, it's been a while since I've studied these and I used it for that exact same purpose.

I was like, all right help explain, you know, this concept to a fourth grader and it was incredible. In a way I'm really excited for them because I think their ability to pursue whatever makes them curious and get a lot more knowledge earlier than I think you and I probably had access to… that I think is going to be really exciting, so I'm curious to see where that goes.

[00:36:18] Adam: Yeah. What is something that you've had to give up to become a dad?

[00:36:24] Pouyan: So going back to that fabric part that tears, it comes back together. I don't know if I fully given this up, but you know, when you first become a dad, it it's not just all right, I want to go do this thing and I can do this thing. And yes, the one person I have to talk to is my spouse.

Can we do that? Or can I take a break to do this? But that just shifts completely. And so I think that's one thing you've certainly had to give up. But then following that is a lot of, you know, your own social connections and your family becomes the most important thing.

[00:36:56] Adam: So it's minus seven degrees in Minnesota today. You got your kids home from school cause it's too cold to, to function in the classroom. Who knows power might be going out. Roads are icy. You know, you're trying to work. You're trying to record this podcast. You got the kids running around the house.

At some point today, you're probably going to need to center yourself. What are your tried and true tactics to recharge or center yourself amidst the chaos?

[00:37:25] Pouyan: For me it's just being active. It could be anything going for a run, doing a quick workout just even, you know, even going for a walk. So I'll do that at times and even in negative seven and just go out. But that I found being a great way to reset and, you know, working from home being fully remote, you lose that transition time.

And so a lot of times it's you have to be deliberate about creating that. Because even one minute, just a one minute pause can make a difference instead of just going from this straight to whatever needs to happen next.

[00:38:03] Adam: Yeah, like that. I, even just that one minute transition is really helpful to kind of switch modes and say, I'm going from work mode to dad mode, or I'm going from dad to work mode, like, dad to husband mode or something like that. So that's a, that's really helpful. When you think about the universe of possible mistakes that you've made as a dad any particular ones that come to mind in the 13 years of life that you've been a dad?

[00:38:28] Pouyan: I'm still making this mistake and I'm working really hard not to, but the biggest one and I think this is especially true of anyone who's got a very intense high pressure job that just does not let go, is being present, being fully present and not carrying whatever is happening at work into whatever happens here, whether it's driving them to the next class or cooking dinner together or whatever it is. I've become a lot more conscious of it.

And I think I've gotten a heck of a lot better at compartmentalizing and saying, you know what? Yes, this fire is burning. And in startup world, there's always something that's burning. You know this well, and just being okay with that. And I think that's the one piece that you know, this has been said many times and it's, almost tired of like the chaos and accepting that chaos. But I think it's when it's very tactical and in front of you and it's your fire, it's so much harder. But that's one mistake I think I've made a lot earlier, just feeling like, Hey, I could do this all to, to now being like, no, like it certainly does have implications when I'm carrying any of that stress or lack of attention with me. And yeah that's one thing I'm actively like even today going to be working on.

[00:39:47] Adam: Yep. That's a great one. Lifelong journey. That one. Okay. I wanted to ask you before we get to our lightning round, how can people follow along or be helpful to you and your journey?

[00:39:59] Pouyan: Oh, thank you. Um, well, if following along on me, I'm on LinkedIn on Twitter or X now not all that much, but yeah, you can find me there. I don't really post all that much because between startup and dad, it's that, but if anyone wants to engage I'm happy to. And then in terms of help one journey that we are going on and very open about it is one of our kids has ADHD. And so I think that's been one. It's been really helpful being open about it and talking about it, even with our child, but to talking to others about it and other parents about it and what their experience is, how they're working with it, how they're supporting their child, how they're learning to parent.

And so I'd say if anyone is interested in that topic, Or has any lessons to share. That's what I'm happy to have both share and learn.

[00:40:48] Adam: Okay. All right. Thank you. That sounds like a great note to end on. We will send people to your LinkedIn. And also to Scratchpad if they've got products to sell.

[00:40:59] Pouyan: Yeah. If you're in sales, of course, then Scratchpad.

[00:41:01] Adam: Not sell things to you, use Scratchpad to sell things to other people. Love that. Okay, here we go. Lightning round. There is but one rule.

And that is, I ask you a question, and you say the first thing that comes to mind.

And then we move on. It's a judgment free zone. Lots of commiseration, very little to zero judgment. So, here we go. Are you ready?

[00:41:25] Pouyan: Yeah, let's go

[00:41:26] Adam: ha ha! Okay. What is the most indispensable parenting product that you have ever purchased?

[00:41:32] Pouyan: Donuts.

[00:41:33] Adam: What is the most useless parenting product that you've ever purchased?

[00:41:38] Pouyan: Most of them. Anything specific to parents. Like I've been like, yeah.

[00:41:43] Adam: What is the weirdest thing that you've ever found in your kids pockets or the washing machine?

[00:41:49] Pouyan: A piece of glass. My, yeah, I was like, and I had to tell my kid, I was like, that's not a rock. It was like, Oh, shiny rock. But I was like, okay let's not pick that up and put it there. But yeah.

[00:42:01] Adam: True or false, there is only one correct way to load a dishwasher.

[00:42:06] Pouyan: False.

[00:42:07] Adam: Would your wife agree with you on this?

[00:42:10] Pouyan: She, that's why I'm saying false.

[00:42:13] Adam: Okay, which is the crazier block of time in your house? 6am to 8am or 6pm to 8pm?

Pouyan: 6pm and on.

Adam: The ideal day with your kids involves this one activity?

[00:42:27] Pouyan: Cooking together.

[00:42:28] Adam: If your kids had to describe you in one word, what would it be?

[00:42:32] Pouyan: Interesting, but there's a Midwestern tone to that. So, you know, I don't know if you know what I'm talking about in, yeah. So it'd be like, Oh, that, that's interesting. And not in the best way.

[00:42:44] Adam: Yup. What is the most frustrating thing that has ever happened to you as a dad?

[00:42:49] Pouyan: I think any moment where I felt helpless. And there's some specific situations that have come up around, fortunately, it's all fine now, but health concerns where you're like I could stay up 24/7, do whatever it is I need to do.

And I can't fix this. Those are, yeah, those are very frustrating.

[00:43:11] Adam: What is the funniest or most embarrassing thing that one of your kids has ever said in public?

[00:43:17] Pouyan: We were at an ice cream shop and here in the Twin Cities. there was somebody there and let's just say that was larger amd my, my middle one just went up to the person and said, why are you so large? In not a judgmental way or, you know, and use different words, but just a very curious.

[00:43:36] Adam: Yep.

[00:43:37] Pouyan: Yeah,

[00:43:38] Adam: I think we've all been there. Actually, I think that is a story that a lot of people have. So, favorite ages for your kids?

[00:43:46] Pouyan: Not two.

[00:43:48] Adam: That gets to my next question, which is your least favorite age?

[00:43:53] Pouyan: Right, right, right, right around that zone. Yeah, I don't know if I, I don't know if I could answer that as a favorite because. What I'm learning is that there's so I think there are times where, like for me, it's been easier, but if I actually reflect on the different engagements that have happened with them and what I've learned and the excitement, I don't know, it's all fun.

[00:44:12] Adam: How many dad jokes do you tell on average each day?

[00:44:17] Pouyan: It has become a lot less. I've been getting feedback on that. So I'd say we're down to one, maybe one a day.

[00:44:22] Adam: You got to use that feedback to fuel the fire and tell more. What is the strangest food that your kids have ever made you try?

[00:44:31] Pouyan: I don't even know what it was, in kindergarten, they had a cooking class and, my son was just so excited that he made this thing. It looked like a curry of some sort and he came in a little cup and had a spoon. And yeah, I had to eat it. I don't know what to this day. I don't know what it was.

[00:44:48] Adam: It probably was not curry.

[00:44:50] Pouyan: No, it was not curry. It just, it looked like one. And I think there was something in there that looked like a chickpea. But yeah.

[00:44:56] Adam: What is the most embarrassing thing that you have ever done in front of your kids?

[00:45:01] Pouyan: That has yet to come. Yeah, that, that's one thing I've told them. I was like, I don't know if it's just an age thing that you get more comfortable with yourself, but I'm like, let's go. I'm happy to do it. But no I don't think, I don't think anything crazy has happened there yet.

[00:45:13] Adam: Okay. What is the most absurd thing that one of your kids has ever asked you to buy for them?

[00:45:20] Pouyan: I'm pausing on that because I've kind of lost track, like connection to reality on what absurd is what is it or what isn't. I'll tell you as a five year old, I think when my youngest daughter was five was like, I need an iPhone and I need apps on it and all that. And I was like, that's I don't know if that cross is absurd because I guess there's the iPads and stuff there.

But yeah nothing crazy is coming to

[00:45:48] Adam: Okay. Important business meeting for a five year old needed that iPhone. What is the fastest way to get your kids out of bed in the morning?

[00:45:55] Pouyan: Oh, tell him we're going to get donuts. That's like the break glass emergency if something needs to happen.

[00:46:01] Adam: Yep. You mentioned that snacking may be a contentious topic in your household. I'm curious what your go to snack is, though?

[00:46:10] Pouyan: I try not to all that much. Cause again, I think it's this concept of just like having to constantly eat is really the piece. So there's two parts of it is the frequency of it and then what it actually is. But for me, I'll, I try to do a, Like just fruit, like love apples or just a handful of nuts.

I find that to be both easy in between calls and relatively healthy.

[00:46:31] Adam: Okay. What is the worst experience you've ever had assembling a kid's toy or a piece of furniture?

[00:46:37] Pouyan: Oh my gosh. I wish I remembered the name of this, but it's, it was like one of these little outdoor, like small houses for like a three year old that you had to put together and the whole thing was just a disaster. Nothing fit, there, the screws were so cheap that they would just break when you put the thing together.

I was ready just to put a little duct tape on the walls and that was bad. And then the other one was before my daughter or first daughter was born. We didn't even have a closet in the apartment that we lived in. So we went to Ikea and bought one of those like standing closets. That was like a nine hour journey.

[00:47:11] Adam: Oh, that's amazing. Have you ever accidentally mixed up your kids names?

Pouyan: Yes.

 Adam: No judgment. What nostalgic movie can you not wait to force your kids to watch with you?

[00:47:26] Pouyan: Ferris Bueller's day off.

[00:47:28] Adam: Great one. How often do you tell your kids back in my day stories?

[00:47:33] Pouyan: I don't use the term back in my day. Although I feel like if I were to take that term out, the frequency would be higher, couple of times a week. Yeah.

[00:47:41] Adam: Last two questions for you. Do you have a favorite dad hack for road trips or long flights?

[00:47:48] Pouyan: So before a long flight, we'll go to the store and it sounds really simple, but just be like, you can pick out any two snacks that you want. And then at this point, and then at this point, if these things happen, then we can get those. So we use that as the cheat code to snacks and what have you is when we go on those trips.

[00:48:06] Adam: I love that. Okay, final question. You live in the Midwest now. You do have three kids. What is your take on minivans?

[00:48:16] Pouyan: Oh, I mean, we have. Amazing. Total convert. And we were actually experienced that when we were in the Bay Area and had one. So.

[00:48:28] Adam: Wow.

 All right. Big minivan fan here. This is awesome. Is your wife on the same page?

[00:48:35] Pouyan: She's a bigger fan than I am. She converted first and then she got me in the van as well.

[00:48:39] Adam: Okay. All right. Team minivan. Let's go. Well, Pouyan. Thank you so much for joining me today on startup dad. This was a awesome conversation. I laughed a lot. And I wish you, your family, your company all the best. And I hope it warms up in Minnesota soon.

[00:48:57] Pouyan: I appreciate it. Thanks for having me.

[00:48:59] Adam: Thank you for listening to today's conversation with Pouyan Salehi. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe, share, and leave me a review on Apple or Spotify. It'll help other people find this podcast. Startup Dad is a Fishman AF production with editing support from Tommy Harron. If you're a startup founder, leader, or just want to get better at your job in tech as a growth practitioner, product manager, or executive, you can join a community of over 11, 000 subscribers and stay up to date on my thoughts on growth and product by subscribing to the Fishman AF newsletter at www.fishmanafnewsletter. com. Thanks for listening, and see you next week.