Helping Kids Discover Passions Without Pushing Too Hard | Carlo Navarro (Dad of 5, Fractional Exec)

[00:00:00] Carlo: Taking responsibility for what you do is going to be something you're going to have to work with the rest of your life.

But also in this time and space that we're in, right? You have to feel like who is behind my back? I said before if I don't have patience with them, who's going to give it? If I don't love them, then who's going to love them? Where are they going to find sort of this connection? I'd rather have them find that connection with me or with God or it is. At least I know that's safe.

[00:00:22] Adam: Welcome to Startup Dad, the podcast where we dive deep in the lives of dads who are also leaders in the world of startups and business. I'm your host, Adam Fishman. In today's conversation, I sat down with Carlo Navarro. Carlo is a fractional growth and marketing executive based in Chicago. He's been a mentor in the Chicago startup scene via 1871, and a marketing director and sales leader at companies like Blue Leaf, Karim Health, Pandora, and more.

Carlo is also a husband and the father of five kids from ages 14 to 3. In our conversation today, we spoke about helping your kids discover their passions and dreams, while avoiding pushing them to live your idealized version of life. We talked about navigating complex health issues in a large family and how to continue managing life through those challenges.

We also covered the role of social media and technology and how he thinks about that for his family, along with a helpful framework on following through on consequences with your kids. I hope you enjoy today's conversation with Carlo Navarro.

[00:01:29] Adam: I would like to welcome Carlo Navarro to the Startup Dad podcast. Carlo, it is such a great opportunity to have you here. Thank you for joining me. Excited for this conversation.

[00:01:41] Carlo: Yeah. Thanks for having me on the Startup Dad podcast. I've been wanting to do something like this for a while.

[00:01:46] Adam: Yeah. Well, and before we get started, go Lions. You are a fellow Detroit Lions football fan. So yeah, I'm excited about that. They're good this year. This may be the first. the first time in my lifetime. I'm not, I don't want to jinx it that they go to the Superbowl, but we'll

[00:02:00] Carlo: We got so close, we got close.

[00:02:03] Adam: So close. Um, All right, well, let's get into it. First thing I wanted to call out is that you are the owner of my coveted Instagram handle, which is @startupdad. And given that you have five kids, which we'll get into. I'm willing to cede the startup dad credentials to you for this episode. But before we get into family life, I wanted to ask you a bit about your professional background.

Cause you do, we've never met each other before, obviously preparing for this show. But you do something fairly similar to what I do outside of recording a podcast. So tell everybody a bit about what you do for work.

[00:02:41] Carlo: Yeah. So, I mean, the keyword startup dad or startup has been, you know, pretty prominent in my career for a while, for the last 15, nearly 20 years, been in the startup space and so that's where I sort of that originated that handle, but you know, over the last four or five years I predominantly am a, I call a fractional marketing leader.

I go in and help companies diagnose what's going on in their marketing funnel, help remove some blockers. And just help them grow through customer acquisition and eventually revenue. But I do that within the startup technology space mainly B2B, but now then, you know, crushing into the B2C space, but it's been a wild journey within that space.

And I sort of see myself in, help diagnose problems, and I'm out and onto the next client.

[00:03:28] Adam: You're like a surgical strike team of one.

[00:03:31] Carlo: I guess. Yeah.

[00:03:32] Adam: Yeah, that's awesome. I think especially as a parent and a parent of so many kids having slightly more flexible, fractional work life is really, really beneficial. So we'll probably get into that a little bit more too.

So, tell me a little bit about where you grew up and what life was like for you growing up and specifically what were you like as a kid?

[00:03:54] Carlo: Well, I grew up in the east side of Detroit in Michigan. I was born and raised there in a town called now East Point back then called East Detroit. Um, My parents still actually lived there in the same house that I grew up in. And, you know, life, I have an older sister, a younger brother.

So there was three of us, you know, not as much as five. My wife comes from one out of seven. So that you can also talk about that. Life was really interesting for me. You know, being my parents from the Philippines myself being first generation Filipino and just kind of navigating that space, you know, where a lot of your friends are not Filipino, their you know, parents are not from another country.

So you know, that was interesting. That was also very eye opening in some ways. But as a kid, I was definitely the middle child, which I am. My curiosity probably got me in a lot more trouble than I should have been curious about, you know, not always great curiosity.

Right. And so I found myself in some trouble. It's kind of lends to where I'm at today and what I'm doing. My work and how I sort of view the world but life was, you know, my, my parents came from very hardworking families. And though my dad and mom had college degrees, you know, my dad came over from the Philippines and started working in a factory.

He was an architect, right? So they have that sort of mentality of hard work. And I think that has a lot to do with how I look at and view work today. But definitely had my fair share of trouble you know, always trying to kind of, you know, get some sort of reaction from my siblings.

If you were to meet them, I'm very much not like them at all. And unfortunately, or fortunately, I mean, all of my kids are like me in a way, which get much sometimes, but life was good in Michigan and you know, we had opportunity, but also knew that we had to work pretty hard.

[00:05:43] Adam: That's great. You and I grew up very close to each other. Actually. I grew up in Gross Point, which is close. We used to drive by East Point all the time.

[00:05:51] Carlo: There you go. The mall.

[00:05:52] Adam: Yeah, the Mall. That’s right.

[00:05:53] Carlo: Eastland mall, which is no longer there.

[00:05:55] Adam: No, no, I spent many a time at that mall. I wanted to ask you though, because this is interesting, cause you mentioned, you know, your first generation Filipino American. Were you the only Filipino kid in school growing up or were there other?

[00:06:12] Carlo: There were other, I think there were one or I know one for sure. Maybe one or two other families, I think one other family. And though he was in a larger metropolitan area, we were in a smaller, you know, city where school sizes and the classroom sizes were much smaller. But we were, yeah, it was very few, even in high school, like in that space, like there wasn't very many, you know, Asian Americans or many, you know, black students.

It was predominantly white students. But which is really interesting, right? Being where I grew up, right? There's definitely segregated lines. And, you know, we're on the one side of eight mile and the other side of eight mile is completely different. And it's just that the way how it was growing up.

[00:06:50] Adam: Yeah, yeah. And I think I think I'm not sure everyone thinks about that. When they think of Michigan, they think everybody's sort of like the same, you know, generic Midwestern probably look a lot like me or something. But but yeah, it's really it's a really diverse place. And then also, I think I maybe went to school with like one Filipino kid.

So yeah, definitely there's probably far more folks there now than there were when I was younger, but yeah, I just thought that was an interesting data point. I wanted to ask about. So you, troublemaker, have finally settled down and you have a partner. I believe your wife's name is Lisa.

Is that right? And you have five kids, so that's how you've earned the startup dad moniker. How did you and Lisa meet each other?

[00:07:33] Carlo: So we are actually both from Michigan. She's also from Michigan like, just outside Toledo, Ohio, a town called Temperance. We actually didn't know each other in Michigan. We actually met here in Chicago, which I moved here probably 22 years ago now. And we actually met at church and I was sort of exploring my faith at the time out of college and went to a church here in Chicago.

And they have what they call small groups. I got, I sound so old now because I say it was called a 20 somethings group and I'm like 40, you know, 45. And you know, we met there and so she was in a group, I was in a group and we just started becoming friends and we had met each other through that space.

[00:08:11] Adam: Very cool. And then what does Lisa do for work?

[00:08:15] Carlo: Yeah. So she just recently started to work back into kind of the workforce after us, you know, managing, you know, four or five kids. And by trade, she's an interior designer. So now she's heading up interior design for a family run company on her side called SHI, which is Swisher Home Improvement.

So kitchen cabinets and bathroom vanities. She's manning a lot of design for the clients which is, I think it's great. It's getting back into her sort of creative space. She used to do high end kitchen bath for Add up at a studio and then for some, you know, residential and commercial clients.

But we're in that space where our youngest is not in school yet, but will be soon and could potentially go to a daycare or whatever. So I think there's some opportunity to get back and do some work that's meaningful.

[00:09:03] Adam: What's that transition been like for your family with like, you know, she was I think the point person for five kids for several years. And now it's getting back into the workforce. Has that been something that the two of you talked about? Has that been an adjustment for the family? How have you all navigated that?

[00:09:20] Carlo: Yeah. I mean, we're right on the beginning of it right now. Like we just started to talk family early today about the business and how that's going to go. And honestly, we don't know, like we haven't been both working you know, full time ish for a long time and we still have to navigate our three year old.

Right. And it is wild, wild west. I guess we have no idea how that's going to work or if it's going to work at all. Thankfully, you know, my job is flexible, you know, to be able to handle some things here and there. But we don't know yet. So it'd I'd be a good followup to see if they were still doing this and helping and she's trying to figure this out.

You know, cause we had a time where it was sort of, you know, flip flop too where I had stayed home for a little bit and she was doing her interior design and sales job full time and, you know, that was a big transition trying to navigate that with the kids too. So.

[00:10:12] Adam: Sounds like this is just the season of life that you're in. It's kind of fluid and ever changing.

Carlo: Or just life, life. This is what life is going to be.

Adam:This is life. Yeah. this is a great bookmark for a future pod. I'll have you back and

we'll do a followup. Where are they now? You might be starting a trend here. So tell me about your kids.

There's five of them. You mentioned the youngest one is three and you've got like a pretty good spread. So I'm curious about the kids. And then what was the decision for you and Lisa? Like? To start a family. It's, sounds like you've landed in between your size of family when you were growing up and hers, like directly in the middle.

[00:10:48] Carlo: Man, five kids. So oldest is 14. Our only daughter is 14 and her name is Gray and we have four boys. So after that, it was, you know, four boys. I think we were, honestly, we were trying to have a girl and then it was just all boys since then. so the next oldest is 12, nine, five, and three, and so either they're pretty, pretty spread apart, we had three in our family which was, you know, at that time, three kids was a good amount of kids.

And then obviously like Lisa, it was one out of seven. Her sort of family structure is she has two older sisters who are twins than Lisa and then four boys. So I guess you can say where, you know, where the four boys came from. Yeah, that's sort of the dynamic.

And, you know, we always knew he wanted to have, we wanted to have kids. I think, I would love to have more siblings. And maybe Lisa's like, probably would have less siblings. And so, you know, we ended up at that space where, you know, we were, I think we were really focused on three, three, four, and maybe that, how do we get a girl here at some point?

You know, I think the disappointment from my oldest just became greater and greater as time went on. And I think there is still a video where my brother in law watched Grey while we were having one of the boys. And I, I say one, cause I'm not sure which one it was. And they took a video and they told her that, you know, you have a new baby brother, immediately, like threw her head into the couch and stayed there, like buried, like crying for like 30 minutes.

And we're like, oh, boy, this is not going to be good coming home with this one. So it's been a wild ride. It's continued to be a really, really interesting, ride.

[00:12:26] Adam: Yeah. What's the dynamic like in your household with like the oldest being a girl and then four boys, does she like run the show? Does she get constantly teased and picked on by the other four? 

[00:12:38] Carlo: She is very dedicated into her dance and ballet and knowing that's her sort of passion, right? I think could also be that it takes her away from the house. Majority of the time, like she is not around a ton because she’s a freshman now.

And she really wanted to do a day program. So she's doing ballet during the day and also doing online school. So this is very different for us. Like, I would never really thought about that. And navigating high school in Chicago is just ridiculous, dude. That could be an entire podcast, but Her cadence takes her away a lot.

Like she's not around a ton, but she is around. But you know, when she is home, she's annoyed by them. You know, the boys are just super high energy WWE type attitudes and it's just it's a tough time right now. Just trying to navigate. You know, everyone's sort of energy of who they are and who they're trying to be.

And honestly, like that teenager transition is just like something we've never, you know, no one can really prepare for. I think it's very interesting.

[00:13:41] Adam: Yeah. I too am about to enter that phase of life.

[00:13:43] Carlo: There you go.

[00:13:44] Adam: So hopefully through these podcasts, I'm learning a thing or two about how to navigate it. That's really amazing about your daughter though. I had no idea. That was even a thing that you could do, but it sounds like she's very serious about her dance.

[00:13:57] Carlo: It's really interesting because you sort of have to have this conversation with her early on and because of the space in the industry and like the art of it, right? Ballet is like you really can't like, oh, so I want to go back to school or whatever. It's not like you can go back and become a ballerina at no 40.

[00:14:12] Adam: Right.

[00:14:13] Carlo: Maybe you can, I don't know, you know, maybe there's a Tom Brady at ballet, but maybe there's not, right? But it's crazy because she is always so young and needs to make a decision like this is a path. Are you going to dedicate the next level? You know, it's just look at it with sports, right? I think it's becoming younger and younger unfortunately, but you're saying hey, this is the next level. So, do you know what next level means and the dedication that means it's not always enjoyable It means it's always doing the things you don't want to do perfect example.

Like, she has to come home and ice her feet. Like, it's just one of those things. She's like, I don't want to do this. I don't want to stretch. I don't want to do this. And it's like, well, you've have made this decision with us to pursue something a little bit next level. You know, what does that mean?

What's the dedication? What's the commitment? And I think that's like ongoing conversation with someone so young.

[00:14:58] Adam: Yeah.

[00:14:59] Carlo: Right. And wishing it was a little bit older, they can make the decision, but it, unfortunately, like the industry and the space it's in, you know, It's not right. So.

[00:15:08] Adam: Yeah. That actually is a really good segue into this topic of how you can help kids navigate and discover passion and dreams. So obviously with your daughter, a dance is a passion of hers and still challenging, right? Our passions are often labors of love. And so I'm curious how you, you know, either through her or you also have four other kids and they're going to have their own passions and dreams, and they're all going to be probably different.

So how have you handled that with five kids at so many different ages.

[00:15:46] Carlo: That's a quick try and figure out how to handle that right now, like together with my wife, so, as I look at even a career, when I used to work in sort of this career services, I worked at a bootcamp that was called startup Institute of all things.

Right. And what we did was help people find a new career in startups. And part of that cadence was understanding you know, what are the things that you like to do and being really aware of the things that are, that don't seem like work, they're very enjoyable, the things you're sort of, interested in and you have, you know, a little bit more talent, I guess, in that space.

So if I look at my boys and like, there's two of them that really love to draw and just like gravitate to just scribbling and, you know, grabbing paper and sketching, you know, and that's sort of an indication of, is this like a space we need to explore? You know, my oldest is, I mean, just very into sports and could seem to pick up sports from different, you know, ball sports, whatever, whatever sport is he wants to be involved in, right?

I think that's a really important piece of awareness, but also it could be taken in the wrong context to I love sports, but I also be very careful , being that sports parent to sort of feed the dream that I had to someone else. I think that's the fine line, right? You know, my shortcomings shouldn't be their fulfillment when it comes to a certain activity or sport, whether it's sports, whether it's art, whether it's entrepreneurship, you know, I think it's just being more aware as much as you can about things that they'd like to do and gravitate towards and starting to explore those things in a more deeper level, whether it's more activities or just trying to have conversations around the things that you enjoy.

[00:17:33] Adam: Yeah. You obviously mentioned that it's kind of hard to walk that line of not living vicariously through your kid, right? So like you've got a football player and you're a big football fan, like, you know, you want to lean into that because it's a way to connect and enjoy your time.

And it's something for the two of you to bond about and things like that. how have you kind of walked that line or caught yourself when you're like veering into that, you know, overly proud dad or living vicariously dad moments?

[00:18:05] Carlo: My kids were really into, I don't know if they're really into it, but we started them in soccer. And so they played years and years of soccer. We went through travel soccer and then, you know, started to get them involved in that.

And I, you know, though I played sports I played soccer growing up as well. You know, received mediocre to go play a little bit of D3. And I think looking back, right, not being able to sort of pursue that in my own career, I found myself that parent, to be honest, during the soccer game is the one screaming, yelling, coaching, being told to calm down.

And I was that guy like, and I realize that and it wasn't good, right? And that's when I felt like, okay, I'm sort of trying to live out what I didn't do from a sports perspective through my kids. And I think what had happened is they play football now because you know, they were sort of warm about soccer.

And I don't know if it was for me or not. It may have been maybe they lost that sort of, you know, passion for interests, or maybe they're just kids, like they wanna play everything, right? So when we found this program for football, it was at a time where we really needed the space for them to express some more, you know, their athletic ability, or even just emotions, right?

I did not grow up playing football. I enjoyed the game. I enjoy watching it. I love, you know, college football, love watching the lions right? But I am not a sort of craft football connoisseur. So I knew nothing really. I was learning with them on positions and plays and everything. So I couldn't be that guy on the sidelines telling him what to do, cause I had no idea what I was doing.

So it sort of forced me to sit down and actually just watch and learn. And when they would bring home the playbook, I'm reading it with them. Some of the best moments were laying in bed and repeating back plays. I'm like, okay, what does that mean? What is like, you know, what are all these, you know, plays and options and they're explaining it to me and I'm learning at the same time.

I think that's what the fine line was that I was forced to not know anything. And I actually encourage parents. If there's something like a sport they want to do, you know nothing about, like I would encourage doing that because it will force you to just be a student. Like I, I, if I were to yell about football, I'd be like, you don't know what you're talking about.

Like the only thing I knew about how to teach my kids in football is how to punt.

[00:20:31] Adam: Yeah,

[00:20:32] Carlo: Right? Or kick. And I'm still, I'm learning that too. And so, yeah, that's been the most amazing part. It's like being a student of a sport that I enjoyed, but I will tell you, right. I couldn't rip off plays for you to understand, and that's been the most enjoyable part of this whole like experience football.

[00:20:47] Adam: That's great. I wanted to ask a little bit of a fun question, which is we have the holidays coming up. And as I was doing some social media sleuthing of you and your wife I saw a nice, beautifully taken family Christmas card from a year ago or something. And then it got me thinking.

Man, it, it must be really hard to pull off the perfect family photo for a Christmas card with five kids. And I could barely do it with a family of four. Forget about the time we tried to bring the dog into it one time. That was a disaster. So I'm curious, do you have any with the holidays coming up, do you have any hot tips for for how to pull off the perfect family Christmas card?

[00:21:26] Carlo: I'll tell you a funny story for us. So we had actually tried to get many sessions. One time we got all dressed up, we got all the outfits, whatever we met at the park, the photographer was there and did the whole session. We get an email back. It was difficult, right? We were just trying to wrangle.

I don't even know what was going on. We get an email back a few days later and offered to do another session gratis. And I'm like, did, was it that bad that zero photos were taken that we could actually use for a card? So we did it again. And then I think there was like one that we got on and then we, my wife and I, she's like, this is if any indication how hard it is to get a photo with a photographer, like, I don't know what we're gonna do.

And so the hot tip is, cause you know, we want to do it ourselves sometimes because, you know, it's just logistics, whatever, and it's expensive. So last year we started setting up the camera on 4K, 60 frames a second on the iPhone and just let it run. And then we'll freeze, we'll freeze frame it. And hopefully someone is looking, everyone's looking at the same time.

Either screenshot it or freeze it and then use that as a photo. Like we literally had to run a video. It may take an hour for us to do that. But that is my hot tip for anyone who cannot get a photo is just to run it on 4K high res, try to get, okay, everyone, pause, please pause. And then you hopefully, you know, that timestamp to freeze frame it.

And then you're good

[00:22:57] Adam: That's a hot tip for sure. And also how fun that you're going to have like a whole, like outtake, like blooper reel of the family.

[00:23:05] Carlo: It was like kids running up and down, touching the camera. Yeah, it's pretty comical.

[00:23:11] Adam: Those are my favorites. We have friends who post every year, they post the family photo and then they post the behind the scenes of the family photo with like kids crying and like a kid upside down and some of their pants off and like…

[00:23:22] Carlo: Oh, my gosh.

[00:23:22] Adam: A whole thing. Yeah. It's awesome. But I do love the video idea. This is.

I may have to, I may have to employ this technique in the future.

[00:23:30] Carlo: Yeah, it is essentially all behind the scenes. Our life is behind the scenes.

[00:23:35] Adam: That's awesome. We might try that for the family photo in front of the tree, which doesn't end up in the card cause it's too late, but does end up all over the, you know, the socials.

[00:23:43] Carlo: Right, right.

[00:23:45] Adam: Okay. So you've got a spread of kids from age 14, all the way down to age three. And I often ask dads, like, what are the different kind of emotions that they've experienced as their kid was born, but one of the things I'm curious for you is have you found them to be the same emotions or different, or like, what has changed for you as you've gone and had, you know, a new kid every couple of years.

[00:24:13] Carlo: You know, with the first one, right, I think there's very similar, you know, feelings or emotions with a lot of parents, right? It's like this newness, lot of uncertainty. Responsibility, not that you don't feel responsibility with more kids, right? I mean, you do feel more. I think it's, as time went on you know, I think it's natural to be like, okay, we have responsibility here.

We have a response. Now we have other three at home, like, and it's like, logistically you're thinking more management, right? How do I, how do we quarterback this thing? You're managing emotions. Like I mentioned, my daughter, right? Wasn't very happy with a boy. Most kids aren't happy with new kids.

So I think you're also trying to manage emotions or understand emotions from your kids standpoint. Like, hey, there's a new person coming here. What does that look like? You know, I remember books being about, you know, you can sit on mom, dad's lap, you know, but you know, there's a new baby coming and it's like that sort of difference is, you know, how do we imagine now with one, with two, with three, four, now with five coming in and saying, that's the difference where you seem to have layers of expectations and emotions to deal with, not just from your own emotions, but like, how's the family gonna, you know, feel about this? Right? I think that's the difference.

[00:25:27] Adam: Yeah. So just gets more complex and nested as you go. Yeah. That's really interesting. One of the topics that you mentioned was balancing health. Issues with the busyness of a household. And you mentioned you had some health issues in your family. And so I'm just kind of curious about that and about how you have handled those complexities in a world that's already really busy and probably very overwhelming.

[00:25:56] Carlo: When jet was born, you know, he's the youngest. six months old. My wife had noticed his eyes started to twitch a little bit and we kind of took that like, oh, take an optometrist, ophthalmologist, maybe call it a lazy eye.

And we had taken him in and. You know, from that point on, I did some tests you know, sort of ruled out the I thing, but then when they did the sort of MRI on his brain, they found some issues and they found issues where there was essentially like blood clotting within his brain. And so that's sort of, you know, escalated a lot more appointments and scheduling and doctors and, you know, talk about like, how do you sort of translate what's going on to your other kids.

I think that was like a big pressure stress point too, right, even figuring out what's going on. And so when he was diagnosed, he's actually diagnosed with something called HHT. And I'm not even going to try to tell you what that means from an acronym because I will.

I'm going to screw it up, but essentially it's a genetic disease. We found out in a genetic disease that essentially it creates like entanglements of your blood vessels and blood in parts of your body. It could be the brain, the lungs. Most people find out they have this disease when there's an occurrence like a seizure or aneurysm and, or stroke.

So you don't find out like the majority of people find out when they're like, 80 or 70 or something happens, right? We had found out when we did the test on his eyes. And so he had this sort of HHT in his brain. And what they had to do was go in and do a more in depth called angiogram, which is like an MRI.

And they were able to go in and essentially embolize and reroute the flow of blood in his brain through like a femoral artery, like just scope it and his, he's gone through probably, you know, total four surgeries now, two or three were brain and then they found some stuff in his lung.

So I think you know, when we found that out, right, it just one, you never know what this sort of disease is, right? That you're sort of new. So layer that on top of the emotions of the kids not knowing what their little brother is going through. He's only six months old and you know, we're in and out of the hospital and our own sort of emotions of what's going on and you know, that was probably the most difficult part because everything was so uncertain, everything and then on top of running your own business,

[00:28:26] Adam: Yeah. 

[00:28:37] Carlo: things start to become very, very stressful trying to navigate. Not just life, but work and, you know, you have to make amends.

You have to, obviously you prioritize, right? At that time, you know, business was slowing down. I'm like, oh my gosh, like everything's sort of like on top of each other, on top of each other. And so managing that was probably the most difficult part over the last, now it's been two and a half years, right?

Managing the same sort of cadence. And then it's crazy because, you know, when we first found out, we didn't know if he was going to live a normal life. And on top of that, because it's genetic, we had to kind of look at where it came from. And so it ended up being that my wife’s side, she has HHT so that so once a parent has, it's like a 50-50 chance that the kids are going to have it.

So, obviously, Jet had it and then Lisa has it, and one of my other sons has it, but he doesn't have any symptomatic issues and you know, I'll share with you guys here is that as they were looking at things for my wife, they end up finding, you know, she had to have lung surgery as well to fix AVMs, which she is fine.

But I think the other layer of that was for me as a dad and the pressure comes with not just being the father and like navigating emotions and, you know, navigating life as a business owner, but as a husband now, because they had found issues in Lisa's brain and they had found a, a mass in her jaw.

Which led to believe, like we need to do biopsies. It was potentially cancer. And we had to now navigate, not just the HHT portion, now going through appointments and conversations about what's going to happen. Thank God that the sort of growth was not cancerous.

Right? Because if it was, it had to be removed and because of, and I was like, oh yeah, if we can remove it, we can just like, you know, they can move on. Like, you know, this is the steps, but they said, because of the location of it, he was on a nerve, right?

[00:30:34] Adam: Hmm.

[00:30:35] Carlo: And if it was removed, it would disrupt the nerve, it would leave her face in paralysis.

[00:30:42] Adam: Hmm.

[00:30:43] Carlo: So, I mean, as a dad, right, I can remember sitting in the hospital waiting for her biopsy to happen and just, I think the two and a half years just, all of a sudden it came crashing in the middle of a lobby in Northwestern Hospital. I lost it, you know, I one of my best friends called me I texted him, I said, man, this is a lot, you know, like, and thankfully everything is now over that horizon, you know, but I think a lot of times, why appreciate this podcast too is like, I think men don't really talk about this stuff that starts to weigh over and over and over when there's space to do it.

I think that we need to talk about this stuff more because it's not just work life, it's family and more and more dads I know are trying to become more involved and not more involved, but have a bigger influence on right in a world that is just, it's just crazy at this point, right? Like, there's just crazy as name.

There's so many things that are happening to influence, you know, our kids and you have to navigate that appropriately because when you're growing up there was not this many ways to think about things and to understand different points of uses. I hate saying being old, but you're saying like, it seemed a lot more simple to navigate.

Right?

[00:32:05] Adam: Well, in many ways, you're right. It was or as you mentioned, dads didn't talk about this stuff. And so we didn't feel an obligation, you know, generationally, it's very different. Like your parents, your parents, parents, like just dads didn't get involved in that stuff and now we are but yeah, I can imagine that that was quite a time for you because life keeps going on.

You still have five kids, right? You have a couple health things going on and then you got the other kids and you and then explaining to them. You know, what's going on. They can't only some of them can probably understand, you know, your older kids, maybe but I'm glad that you and your family have navigated through it and you've come out the other side.

[00:32:53] Carlo: And we're still navigating it. Right. It's like processing those situations, emotions, and it's a difficult thing. Right. I mean, it's a lot to take in for young kids. Especially with their, you know, cresting into the teenager years, there's other things that are important to them. Why can't we go to this thing?

Because you know, Jet has an appointment, you know.

[00:33:14] Adam: Yeah they feel a much stronger pull towards spending more time with their friends as I've discovered than the family. And they're like, oh, the family's bringing me down. I gotta go do this thing. Thank you for sharing that. It is important, I think, for people to hear about the struggle on this pod because it's a lot.

It's a lot to navigate. If you could hit the time machine and go back to before your daughter was born. So before you had your first kid. So this is, you know, 14 plus years ago.

[00:33:42] Carlo: All right,

[00:33:43] Adam: And you meet younger Carlo. What advice would you give the younger version of yourself about raising a family?

[00:33:51] Carlo: The advice would be this, would say to my younger self yes, pursue your passion, pursue the things you want to do, but do not weight the influence of what people think about it as heavily as you are doing right now, I think that comes from a lot of things for me, I think it comes from one also being first generation, you know, Philippine American too, is like, there are a lot of expectations in the culture itself, right?

To be certain things, to pursue different careers to pursue a route that may be more safe than others, right? I think what that leaves is, I would tell him, Carlo to say, stop trying to please everybody, right? You have to go discover who you are. Cause we were all created uniquely different.

And it's because what ends up happening is that you're going to end up veering off because you want to make sure that everyone's okay with what you're doing and making sure that you know, no one's mad at you or upset at you. It's just, you've got to just focus on you. And then so that when you do have these kids, And they have their own passions, you can sort of let that go, right?

You don't have to like transition those things into them. When we talked about earlier with whether it's sports or like a different activity, it's like you're not transferring these things generationally. You sort of left it at a place where you are okay with doing what you need to do. And you gave it everything you've got.

And you could now be the person that encourages and helps navigate someone else to pursue their life.

[00:35:24] Adam: Oh, I love that. That's such good advice. Thank you. Now you've probably got a lot of these, but what is your favorite book to read to your kids?

[00:35:34] Carlo: Favorite book. Wow.

[00:35:37] Adam: That maybe like all five kids got the dose of this book?

[00:35:41] Carlo: Yeah,

[00:35:42] Adam: As they were growing up? Which one sort of stands the test of time?

[00:35:46] Carlo: You know, it's a book called Rosie Revere Engineer.

[00:35:49] Adam: I love that book.

[00:35:50] Carlo: It's just, it's, I guess it's from the sort of entrepreneurial me and this, just the story of failure, like some failure may be in your eyes and some things, but then you have that one person, right, your aunt that just says, but it worked, right?

I think we all want that. We all want that person in our life,

[00:36:12] Adam: Yeah.

[00:36:13] Carlo: And I think we should be that person as parents. It's a hard thing to do because you want to protect them. And I end up becoming more of the parent than I do the encourager of certain things. admit that, but yeah, to to invent, and then everyone else is like, eh, and then you get that one person who's like, it worked!

What are you talking about? Like, I think I get emo... I love that book. We've gifted that book to so many people.

[00:36:39] Adam: That is a question I've been asking other dads is what book should be under the tree for the family this year? And it sounds like that's a top choice. So.

[00:36:47] Carlo: Yea the whole series, I can't forget, you should, we'll get the author on there, but I think you know, there was Iggy Peck, the architect, There's Rosie Revere, the engineer, that whole series is just so…

[00:36:57] Adam: Ada twist, the scientist,

[00:36:58] Carlo: It's just done so well.

[00:37:00] Adam: It really is. We'll link to all of these.

[00:37:03] Carlo: Yeah. I love that book. I love those books.

[00:37:05] Adam: Cool. All right, just a few more questions for you before our lightning round. So I have found that partnership is really important when you have kids but it's also hard to agree all the time with your spouse, with your significant other where's an area that you and Lisa don't agree on when it comes to parenting?

[00:37:26] Carlo: Oh my gosh. Did you talk to Lisa earlier today or like this week?

[00:37:29] Adam: I have never met her. I have never met her. I have no knowledge.

[00:37:32] Carlo: She’s probably upstairs listening right now and knowing that what we're fighting about. Yeah, so transparently, right. I am, and I've been told this today that I don't, I'm not falling through on consequences.

That I essentially say to the kids that what's going to happen if you don't and maybe I need to approach it a different way with them, but you know, there's some, you know, we're dealing with some, things and attitudes that are not appropriate, right? For what we believe in.

And so it was like, there are consequences for that. And one of the consequences to be honest, I, you know, we were like, no football. Or you're not going to go and I just, and maybe I just, I love seeing him play so much. And I was like, well, he's going to go, we'll find another consequence. And I think it was brought up to me gently that we're not sticking to this consequence because it starts to bear zero weight.

So that is the biggest thing where I am such a different type of person when it comes to that, I give in and I think the consequences I don't follow through and I admit that and that is something that we're, I am working on a hundred percent, right? I mean, especially when it comes to like them missing out on something that I feel like they should miss out on, or it's an experience that they should do.

 But, you know, when we have gone through together as a partnership it has bared weight, right? And one example is that, I mean, there was this time, man, where it was spring break, we had purchased tickets to go fly to Florida for spring break to visit her family. Kids were just not, we, they just were not just like, being good at all.

[00:39:06] Adam: Yeah,

[00:39:06] Carlo: And the consequences here we're going to cancel this vacation. I was like, oh, no, want to go to the beach. Like I want to go like, and we, you know, honestly, we stuck to the guns on this. We canceled those flights. The whole time I was like, I can't believe I'm doing this. Like I'm going to hit this mouse button and I'm canceling Southwest.

Like, this is crazy. And we did it, you know, and it had, it bared some weight. I mean, it didn't, you know, fix all the issues, but we said what we're going to do. I think that's that's a lesson for me. And the lesson for them is like, I think that's the most important part and the hard part is like communicating that with each other when you need to create space to figure out what that means.

I think that's where I need to grow specifically on how to follow through on this stuff.

[00:39:51] Adam: Yeah. I think that's really interesting what you mentioned because you know, life is busy and fast paced for you, you've got five kids and taking that time to like, carve out that place with your spouse to get into alignment and make sure that the two of you are seeing eye is, important, you know, otherwise it's just sort of like a passing quick conversation and you're off to something else.

[00:40:12] Carlo: Right. And then you get distracted. So.

[00:40:14] Adam: Yeah.

So you have built an entire career in and around technology. You help startups many technology companies. When you think about the relationship that you want your kids to have with technology and maybe especially social media, cause you have now a 14 year old daughter. What is that relationship?

How have you thought about technology and social media usage in your family?

[00:40:40] Carlo: Yeah, such a different world to navigate right now for us as parents as even like consumers of social media and seeing what it does in terms of your attention and distraction and you know, my relationship is that working in it, to sort of know the dangers of it, right? And, you know, we have decided to take a stance that our daughter does have a phone, but it is one of those managed phones.

Currently using something called Troomi, it's worked pretty good for us where it doesn't have social media. It doesn't have internet. You have to, you can manage all the apps. But I'll tell you the most interesting part of this, all of this is where I can see the relationship of devices because my daughter doesn't have like access to like Tik Tok or Instagram, all that kind of stuff, right?

But she has, she has a physical phone.

[00:41:33] Adam: Mm hmm.

[00:41:33] Carlo: It is unbelievable how there's still a relationship with that physical phone for her as if she had access to this stuff, but needed to hold it and needed to have it in her hand and needed to look at it. And I'm like, there's nothing on there for you to see, but Google maps, she's probably like, a connoisseur of like Google reviews at this point.

But I'm telling you, like the relationship is like, this is something that they are heavily, heavily relying on as a physical dependency. There's nothing on that phone.

[00:42:12] Adam: Right.

[00:42:13] Carlo: Nothing, but the need to have it in your hand, the need to look at it while you're walking or in the car.

Like what, why is that? I think that's where I see like this sort of dangerous relationship with the way technology and social media is for these kids. And I just don't want them to have it. Transparently, eventually in my career, I want to move away from social media. I want to move away from this technology thing because it just, I just see the effects of it.

And you know, there's so many viewpoints on this too, right? How do we manage social media for kids? Like how do you manage these apps? And I'm just like, just don't, we just, I just can't give them a device.

[00:42:49] Adam: Yeah.

[00:42:50] Carlo: We've tried, we've been gifted devices, the relationship with like streaming and even shows and like when you take it away, it's like, what is going on, you know, and I think that's for me, it's maybe it's appropriate when they are 18, I mean, older and they can, but even so, right, I catch myself scrolling, doom scrolling and what am I doing and it's like wasting time and it's hard because everyone has a phone.

[00:43:18] Adam: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:43:20] Carlo: Every kid's got a phone, an iPhone or something. And I'm like, it's like, it's an everyday question in battle. My 12 year old son is like, well, I don't have a phone. How am I supposed to, how am I supposed to get ahold of you? I'm like, oh man, I wish there were pay phones.

[00:43:35] Adam: I know. Go to a gas station. Use the payphone. Oh, it doesn't exist anymore. Yeah, no, the struggle is real for sure. So good to hear how you are trying to navigate it and that, you know. It's still a battle. So probably give some other parents some comfort that may be going through the same thing right now.

What's a mistake that you've made as a dad?

[00:43:56] Carlo: My gosh. What mistakes haven't I made as a dad? I think it comes down to the word patience. Like that's something I'm really working on. You know, my expectation that you have to. That's a big part of my sort of working relationship now with the kids is like I do lose my patience like for things like yes, there's a lot of kids, but I don't want to blame it.

One is on us right to be more patient to have more grace with them. But, you know, the world is also very on demand. I call this generation like the on demand and everything needs to be now. Like, everything doesn't need to be now. Like, we have to have patience, even for myself.

Like, so, the mistake is not having enough patience with these kids. I think they're at an age of being really curious. And you think about it, if I am not patient with them, who is going to be?

[00:44:45] Adam: This is a common struggle that I think I hear from, from dads. Have you found any techniques or ways of sort of identifying like, oh, I feel like I'm about to lose my patience here. I gotta dial it back in. Like, what are your signals or something?

What do you do to like, snap back to attention?

[00:45:01] Carlo: Yeah, I mean, Usually Lisa’s  like you're losing patience, like go walk outside like that's typically what I need to start listening to.

[00:45:09] Adam: That is a helpful one for a helpful one. 

[00:45:25] Carlo: And like, you know, I think there's, Lisa and I had gone through this sort of parenting, I guess, of course, you can say you know, we honestly need to use this framework way more and be be more cognizant of it.

But it's sort of like this. It's, I think it was called like Connected Families. We had a, it had a really good framework, right? It was like a faith based one for you know, work for our family. But I think the first stage was like correcting. It was like, correct. Like you are responsible, like for like this for the kids, right?

You're responsible for your actions, like hands down, whether intent was, you know, you're responsible for it. Right. And it goes down this sort of like funnel of like you're correcting. There's some coaching. There's some connection. Meaning like, hey, whatever happens though, even though this wasn't cool.

Like you're loved like hands down. That's it. Right. And I think the last one is really about like, whatever happens you're sort of, you're safe…

[00:46:11] Adam: Yeah.

[00:46:12] Carlo: To have these sort of feelings and to feel like you can express your emotions in the space, but I think that's a good framework because like taking responsibility for what you do is going to be something you're going to have to, you know, work with the rest of your life.

Right. But also in this time and space that we're in, right? You have to feel like who is behind my back? I said before if I don't have patience with them, who's going to give it? If I don't love them, then who's going to love them, right?

Where are they going to find sort of these, this connection? I'd rather have them find that connection with me or with God or whatever it is. At least I know that's safe and that kind of aspect.

[00:46:50] Adam: Yeah. Oh, love that framework so much. Thank you for sharing it. We'll look up Connected Families and link to it in the notes. That's great. Thank you. Final question for you, sir, before our lightning round.

How can people follow along or be helpful to you in your journey?

Either your fatherhood journey or your professional journey or all of the above.

[00:47:13] Carlo: Yeah. I mean, I obviously startup dad on Instagram, and it's where I'm at,

[00:47:17] Adam: The coveted handle!

[00:47:36] Carlo: That coveted handle. I've, it's funny. I've actually had long time ago. Someone, I had the Twitter handle. I did let it go. Someone else but I wasn't very active on X or Twitter or whatever. So, you know, you can find me there, Instagram, LinkedIn, you know, you search Carla Navarro on LinkedIn for professional stuff.

You know, I'm always looking to work with new folks and marketing and just being sort of that leader to help them kind of navigate that space. But that's a great place to connect with me. And you know, from Instagram and LinkedIn are good places.

[00:47:49] Adam: All right. Awesome. We will we will link to all that in our notes. Thank you so much. Carlo, are you ready for the lightning round?

[00:47:57] Carlo: I hope so. I hope so.

[00:47:58] Adam: Ah, no one is ever truly ready for lightning round. Okay, here we go. What is the most indispensable parenting product that you have ever purchased in your household?

[00:48:09] Carlo: Gosh. Indispensable?

[00:48:11] Adam: Yes.

[00:48:13] Carlo: Gosh. I don't even know. Indispensable. It honestly is a cooking product. I bought pizza pans at like I'm a Detroit pizza guy. Like, we, I mean, that's another podcast about how I make Detroit pizza, but like to be able to make pizza, you know, for the kids and then actually it'd be good.

I've probably used that thing. We probably use every week

[00:48:35] Adam: Yeah. Awesome. I saw on LinkedIn that you're a Detroit pizza guy. And I'm going to have to get that story and recipes. I love Detroit style pizza. What about the opposite? What is the most useless parenting product that you've ever purchased?

[00:48:49] Carlo: Gosh, it was probably one of those bottle warmer. I mean, you know, those bottle warmers where, you know, I had just end up turning the sink on, you know, to warm the milk at night, I think. I don't know why you bought that thing at all,

[00:49:01] Adam: Ok. Most chaotic time in your household, 6 AM to 8 AM or 6 PM to 8 PM?

[00:49:10] Carlo: I would say six a. to eight a, because of just getting to school. That's something you have to do every day. You know, when they got activities at night, they're not home till later in the night anyway with them. So I, the mornings are just, it's tough. It is a exercise in patience.

I don't know how these influencers do it.

[00:49:25] Adam: They don't. They're lying.

[00:49:27] Carlo: There's no way I've always wanted to use the startup dad to like document the life of a dad of five. I'm like, I just don't think I have the time.

[00:49:36] Adam: Okay, what is the most frustrating thing that has ever happened to you as a dad?

[00:49:42] Carlo: Probably the sports stuff where like you don't have to be like Messi or the next Michael Jordan, but like when you go out there and just don't care and you're just like, ah, whatever, like, that's frustrating to me. It's like, just try, try, right?

[00:50:01] Adam: All right. What is your go to dad wardrobe?

[00:50:04] Carlo: Oh my gosh. I don't have it on today, which is counterintuitive, but it's a hat and I have a t shirt. I comb my hair for this podcast. So, I'm, you know, if there was ever a sponsorship in the world for me, it'd be like Target. I think I would just buy a different color t shirt every day and wear a hat.

[00:50:19] Adam: Is it a Lion's hat, usually? Or do you have a different kind of hat?

[00:50:23] Carlo: It's actually a football hat. I don't think when we first talked, it was a pigskin hat that I had made about football. Yeah.

[00:50:30] Adam: Yes.

[00:50:31] Carlo: A generic head that I can wear every day that just gray and can, you know, I don't have to do anything.

[00:50:36] Adam: Okay. What is the favorite age or ages for your kids?

[00:50:41] Carlo: You know, the youngest is three and I think three is just a really fun age. You know, there's terrible twos and threes, but three to five is just a fun age. And my other son is five and it's just enjoyable one.

[00:50:53] Adam: What about your least favorite age?

[00:50:57] Carlo: The least favorite age is the one I'm going through right now, and I don't know much about is the kind of going into the teenager space is, is just I don't know how we're gonna end up on the other side of it.

[00:51:09] Adam: You will survive. Many have in, in, in the past. How many dad jokes do you tell on average in a given day? 

[00:51:15] Carlo: I make more dead comments, which no one really reacts to. And I sent tend to repeat them until someone does. And they're like, it's not funny. Like, it's just not.

[00:51:22] Adam: What's a dad comment? What do you mean by dad comment?

[00:51:26] Carlo: I think it's more like puns, you know? You, yeah, you're like, I don't, I can't think of it off the top of my head, but just really dumb ones that, you know, doesn't make any sense until you, someone actually needs to look at me and understand, but.

[00:51:38] Adam: What is the most embarrassing thing that you've ever done in front of your kids?

[00:51:43] Carlo: Oh man, well, they're huge components of like listening to music on the way to school and they have this playlist like I don't know the songs that they love and there was a song I don't even know the name of the song, but it the words are like I got my head out the sunroof and so I put down all the windows and just started like pumping through it like driving into school drop off and they were like no way.

They are just in seats hiding and I'm like, hey, it's a great song.

[00:52:10] Adam: Mortified, singing along. What is the most absurd thing that one of your kids has ever asked you to buy for them?

[00:52:19] Carlo: I think my five year old wanted a Tesla. I don't know why.

[00:52:24] Adam: That'll do it. That'll do it.

[00:52:26] Carlo: Like it's electric. I'm like, yeah, I get it. But yeah, I don't think we need a Tesla. I know we don't have one. We have a big old Atlas seven passenger that we are completely out of capacity at.

[00:52:36] Adam: That's right. What is the most difficult kids TV show that you've ever had to sit through?

[00:52:42] Carlo: Back in the day, it was, I think it was Caillou,

[00:52:45] Adam: Mmm.

[00:52:46] Carlo: Which is really difficult the one of the kids is watching Blippi these days, once in a while, and that's, it's interesting, it reminds me of the PeeWee Herman days, we were growing up, so, very difficult to go through.

[00:52:59] Adam: What is your favorite kid's movie?

[00:53:03] Carlo: Lion King has been top for them. And apparently like there's a whole series of Lion Guard, which they love. So it sort of tells a story of their younger selves. And so, that has been a classic for us. And the songs too, I think that they enjoy them.

[00:53:20] Adam: What is the worst experience that you've ever had assembling a kid's toy or a piece of furniture?

[00:53:26] Carlo: Because we have five kids, you know, we've used the same crib to toddler bed to crib to toddler to crib. So five times I can't, I think every time I put in the wrong side or the screws and I end up doing it. I know this thing's gonna fall apart at some point because I'm putting in the screws in the wrong place.

I'm missing pieces. I'm finding other pieces to put in place of it. I've put it the wrong way. I'm not even sure if the one right now is put in properly. I'm sure it is. But that has been, you think of doing it enough times. I would understand how to disassemble and assemble it, but it's just not the case.

[00:54:03] Adam: Nope. Love that. Have you ever accidentally mixed up your kid's names?

[00:54:07] Carlo: Oh, all the time. All the time. I actually have a pinned notes app on my iPhone with the kids' names and birthdates on them.

[00:54:17] Adam: That’s awesome. This is a lot to remember. It is a lot.

[00:54:21] Carlo: You know, I learned my lesson when I got my daughter's birthdate wrong at the airport to TSA through ticketing with the TSA and she's like, when's your birthday? She's like, you know, you know, January 2nd and 2010 and he's like, not what it says on the ticket. I'm like, go all the way back to ticketing. That's when I got the notes app pinned. Make sure. 

Adam: Never make that mistake twice. Yeah. How long can a piece of food sit on the floor in your house and you will still eat it?

CarloOh, if it's there, I'll eat it. I mean, there's just, food is a scarcity with these five kids, you know? So.

 if it's there, it's fine. Like, it's, I'm sure it won't hurt me.

[00:55:01] Adam: Okay. Do you have a nostalgic movie that you just can't wait to force your kids to watch with you?

[00:55:08] Carlo: So we've actually watched it. If that counts is Sandlot.

[00:55:12] Adam: Oh, Yes, Sandlot. I think the first time that that has come up on this podcast. Great

[00:55:17] Carlo: Really? It's great film and last summer you know, I went outside, we live in Chicago, we're fairly close and I heard the boys whispering and I said, what do you guys talk about it? And my son goes, Judah thinks that's Wendy Peppercorn next door. I'm like, oh no, maybe too early for that.

[00:55:37] Adam: Yeah. Yeah. How often do you tell your kids back in my day stories?

[00:55:43] Carlo: Oh my gosh, probably daily. Daily.

[00:55:46] Adam: How many times in a week do you say, go ask your mother

[00:55:52] Carlo: In a week. Oh, in a day or a week, at least a couple, at least a couple of times, like a week, you know, I mean, yeah,

[00:56:00] Adam: All right. And finally, I think I'm, you may have alluded to this answer, but what is your take on minivans?

[00:56:08] Carlo: I really want one. I we've come to a point where they, we need one. We want one. I just didn't realize how expensive they were.

[00:56:14] Adam: Yes.

[00:56:15] Carlo: They are, they are not cheap. Even the used ones,

[00:56:18] Adam: Yes.

[00:56:19] Carlo: They're hot commodity,

[00:56:20] Adam: But you are team, you're a team minivan. Now does Lisa feel the same way? Is she team minivan?

[00:56:27] Carlo: I think she said if we were to get one, it'd be fine, but you know, we're managing so far, but honestly I was trying to buy for like a sprinter,

[00:56:34] Adam: Oh, nice.

[00:56:36] Carlo: No space for that in the city, but if I had space, if I had room, you know, I just wish we had the full on remember those conversion vans we had as a kid.

I mean, we just, they don't, I don't know the backstory of why they don't have them anymore, but I guess. I just wish they have.

[00:56:52] Adam: Well, perhaps this podcast can do its job to bring them back. We'll see. We'll put some pressure on Ford. All right. Well, Carlo, thank you so much for joining me on startup dad, the original startup dad moniker and everything. It was great having you here and

really appreciate it.

[00:57:10] Carlo: Thanks for having me.

[00:57:12] Adam: Thank you for listening to today's conversation with Carlo Navarro.

If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe, share, and leave me a review on Apple or Spotify. It'll help other people find this podcast. Startup Dad is a Fishman AF production with editing support from Tommy Harron. You can join a community of over 11,000 subscribers and stay up to date on my thoughts on growth, product, and parenting by subscribing to the Fishman AF newsletter at www.fishmanafnewsletter.com. Thanks for listening and see you next week.

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