Parenting Strategies For Raising Four Kids | Brian Rothenberg (father of 4, Defy, Eventbrite)

Brian: The other thing I've come to learn is just how selfless you need to be to be a good parent. I think I probably came to the realization after having kids that I was much more self absorbed than I even realized as a single person or just, you know, married without kids.

And so having to give that up and, it's been a an evolution for me, but I think it's made me hopefully a better spouse and a better person but that was a difficult shift.

Adam: Welcome to StartupDad, the podcast where we dive deep into the lives of dads who are also leaders in the world of startups and business. I'm your host, Adam Fishman. In today's conversation, I sat down with Brian Rothenberg. Brian is a general partner at DeFi, an early stage venture capital firm.

And he was also the former head of growth at Eventbrite and a Serial Marketplace founder. He's a husband and the father of four kids. In our conversation today, we spoke about how to adapt parenting strategies as your family grows, when to collaborate, and when to divide and conquer. How he and his wife have divided up the household tasks by identifying specific areas of ownership, not unlike scaling a startup, and how they get on the same page about big decisions versus letting go of the smaller ones.

We also discussed how Brian learned to be less focused on himself and more selfless through continued conversation with his wife and the strategies he uses to maintain calm in a chaotic household. If your house is in chaos, there's still one thing you can count on. The quality of Startup Dad merchandise.

Check it out at www.startupdadshop.com to support this podcast.

Adam: I would like to welcome Brian Rothenberg to the Startup Dad Show. Brian, it is a pleasure having you here today. Thank you for joining me.

Brian: Hey, Adam, thanks for hosting me. This is going to be fun.

Adam: I cannot wait. Let's dig in. There's a lot of children to get through here. So First thing though, Brian is I'd love to hear a little bit about your professional background. So for folks that don't know you tell us about Brian.

Brian: Yeah. Happy to. So, let's see, I grew up here in the San Francisco Bay area. I went to college at USC have always been entrepreneurial. So I actually started my first real company when I was a freshman in college, it was an online ticket brokerage company and marketplace. And did that to pay for school and learned a ton and really got hooked on the power of the internet.

And so knew that's where I want to be. I want to build my career there. I went to Yahoo back in the early days when Yahoo was a thing. I was a products manager there in the first 10 years of the commercial internet, and it was lucky to meet a lot of great people and learned a ton. Went back to school actually thinking that I might want to shift careers a little bit.

I'd seen a couple of people go into venture capital, sounded like a sexy job. I did a stint as an intern at a firm and realized, amazing path, I want to do this someday, but I've got a lot more to build between now and then. And so happened to meet my second company co-founder. He was at the venture firm with me and we left, we started a new company called Skill Slate.

And it was local services marketplace focused on helping small independent service professionals. So like your one person handyman, house cleaner, et cetera. come online for the first time. Very similar to Thumbtack now, although Thumbtack was a little bit more successful than we were, but we learned a ton.

We raised capital for that business. We ended up selling it to another startup called TaskRabbit. Integrated our product into theirs. And I spent a year there running marketing. And then very serendipitously, I was out at an event. I met the early Eventbrite team. I learned more about the business, it was really impressed by them and thought the business was compelling.

So I joined on there as the first VP of growth back when it was a pretty small startup. I helped to build the growth team and then spent the next six, almost seven years there through us going public. I learned a ton about going from early to late stage and all the ups and downs along the way.

Yeah, then from there I was doing some angel investing, advising a lot of friends, startups, and got a lot of energy from that. I went back to that prior stint as an intern at a VC firm and thought. Okay. I think now's the time to go and jump and try this. And so I was lucky to find a role at a small firm called Defy.

I joined at the first fund. I was really drawn to smaller, more entrepreneurial platforms versus big multi stage. I've been there for now almost five years. I'm a general partner and I invest in early stage companies across both consumer and B2B at the seed and series A stage.

Adam: Awesome. What a journey, too, like multi time founder IPO at Eventbrite, which I think is around the time, like you and I met, I think when you were at Eventbrite, maybe at the TaskRabbit days, I think I was aware of you and who you were at the, in the TaskRabbit/ Skill Slate days, but definitely we spent some time together at Eventbrite

Brian: You were in Lyft. I remember having lunch at the Lyft office and it just through similar growth circles, I think, but always really enjoyed spending time with you.

Adam: Yeah. It's it's fun. And I'm glad we can reconnect for this show. So tell me a little bit about, you mentioned you grew up in the Bay Area, right? And then went to school in Southern California, but what was life like growing up in the Bay Area? What was Brian like as a kid?

Brian: Well, so I was originally born in Sacramento. And so that's where a lot of my family lives. We moved to the Bay Area when I was little. Grew up to wonderful, loving parents and very, very fortunate. Had a younger brother, his name was Jeff. I still have a younger brother, Jeff. He's four and a half years younger.

He now lives in Phoenix area, but you know, I would say very, very normal fortunate upbringing. I grew up in a town called Lafayette, small town here in the East Bay. We now live one town over, so I've come full circle, but I'd say early on, I kind of probably skewed a little bit more nerdy, like really into Legos, into video games.

Always very interested. I mentioned You know, entrepreneurial endeavors. I was always kind of starting like a mobile car wash business or a lemonade stand. Or one summer I started a house painting business. So that's just been a theme for me. And it's something that my parents always encouraged.

And I really give them credit for always pushing me to go do my own thing. Yeah, so very, very fortunate, very normal upbringing. My parents are still married 30 plus years later and they are amazing.

Adam: Wow. Do they still live in and around Lafayette? You live close to them now?

Brian: They do. So, they live nine miles from us. My in laws, my wife's family, parents live three miles from us and my sister in law lives five houses down. So we have our little enclave here.

Adam: That's amazing. You got like a little compound within a 10 mile radius of each other. That's amazing.

Brian: Well, you need a lot of help, Adam, when you have four little kids.

Adam: Yes, which is a great transition. Tell me about your life now. You have four kids, you have a partner, how did you and your wife meet and tell me about the age spread on the kids here.

Brian: Yeah. So, Kelly and I have an interesting history. We've known each other for more than 24 years. We actually grew up in the same town, as I mentioned, went to middle school and high school together. We were not high school sweethearts. We had our own separate lives, but our younger brothers were friends.

Our parents knew each other. And so we reconnected after college. We were both working. I think I was at Yahoo at the time. She was a management consultant at a firm called BCG traveling all over the place. But we met through a mutual friend at that friend's party. Fortunately, I think so much in life is timing.

Like we were in a space where we were mature enough to take each other seriously. But we loved having like a lot of shared history, like mutual friends. We knew where we both came from, and I think that was really important to us. And I guess one other story related to our relationship. We were dating for like six or seven months pretty early on.

She had committed to go to Columbia business school. There was like an early decision process where she was committed, she was going, I was going to go to school in Chicago at Northwestern at the last minute. I thought to myself, I think she's the one, like, I think we're gonna break up if we're not together.

I'm just going to follow her to New York. And so I pivoted my plans. I went to a different school to follow her to New York and two years after that, I proposed to her in Central Park. So good decision in hindsight.

Adam: Way to go! Way to have the foresight to make that change and go follow her. That's awesome. And now you have four children. That's a large number. That is double the number of children that I have. And now I have on this show interviewed somebody who had six kids and that was just a circus.

But you know, the age spread there was such that like the older ones could kind of take care of the younger ones and stuff like that. But just want to jump right in and ask you, how do you and Kelly, your wife, manage a household of four children under the age of 10? And I think your oldest is like nine or something like that. And you mentioned that you have kind of this, you know, fairly thoughtful divide and conquer philosophy that's evolved a bit over time.

So I'd love to hear about, I guess, just generally, how do you manage it? And tell me about dividing and conquering between you and Kelly.

Brian: Yeah, absolutely. Well to answer a prior question really fast. So we have four kids Chase, Charlie, Brooks and Taylor. They are aged almost perfectly or spaced every two years. So 9, 7, 5 and 3. Like literally it's either 23 months apart or 25 months on the other end. So really, really even spacing. How do we manage it?

I would call it controlled chaos. Like it's just, it almost always feels chaotic and on the brink, but I would say our parenting style has evolved over time just out of learning and trial and failing. But really, you know, with one kid, it felt like, okay, it's either two on one, you know, we can double team this little creature or one on one.

And the other parent has some time off by themselves. And that felt. You know, well, a different 0 to 1. Oh my gosh, we have a kid. It was manageable from that perspective going to two, you know, it becomes mostly man to man. Sometimes zone defense if one parent is doing something like working out or taking some time to themselves.

But then with three, it kind of all broke because it was like, okay, we're outnumbered. Now had to go to zone defense, But with four we learned it's just, it's so intense that, you know, while we spend time together, all six of us, we have actually found a way that sometimes is kind of a break in the sense where we break into two groups.

And so Kelly will take two of the kids, I'll take two of the kids and we just go off and do our own things. And then we come back together as a family because somehow. One parent managing two kids can be easier than two parents managing four. And so it's like our split, go off, do different things, come back together, have a meal together.

So we're not always, you know, apart and separate, but that's one of our sort of coping mechanisms, I should say.

Adam: I love that. You, the other thing you mentioned to me was like. You said that the pivot from two to three, or the growth from two to three was a big, massive jump. Some of which related to the zone defense, some of it related to just the, you know, temperament of your third kid. Why was that one so, so hard for you?

Brian: Yeah beyond just the being outnumbered this is a pattern that we've observed. I don't know if any listeners have seen this themselves, or maybe you have, Adam, but for some reason, the 3rd child seems to be the wild card in most families with 3 or 4 kids. I have some theories why, but, most of our friends who do have three kids or more, the third one's the wild one, I think it's partly like there are two kids that are established. They have the sort of the run of the house. This third one shows up and like needs to make waves or splash or, you know, get attention.

So I think that's part of it. But, yeah, ours, Brooks, is a handful. We joke that he's like a descendant of a caveman. Kelly says he's, you know, very similar to my brother who can be a handful. So yeah, I think he, he gives us a run for our money too, but he's a great guy. Just boundless, you know, endless energy.

Adam: Yeah, I mean, you don't love them any less, even if they are exhausting. So, yeah. I wanted to ask like, as you went from one to two to three to four kids did you and Kelly have  like sit down conver-I mean, I'm sure you had many conversations about, oh, we're having another kid, but did you talk about how your philosophy or your sort of approach or how you'd manage the household with a growing family would change over time?

Is that a explicit conversation that the two of you had to have?

Brian: You know, I told Kelly this, but I always envisioned that I'd be a dad of two kids. Like that was just what I envisioned what I knew. Kelly came from a household of three kids and over time sort of worked on me and convinced me, okay let's have a bigger family. And so, She got that one.

And then you know, in full transparency, our fourth was a happy surprise. Very cliche COVID baby,

Adam: Yep.

Brian: Too much time, you know, whatever else, but had the fourth and, you know, it's been an amazing expansion and feels like, you know, only two of the kids are home. It almost feels empty now. But yes, to your other question about how our approach has changed, I would say, when we had one or maybe two kids, I think Kelly and I felt like we had to be in every decision together and maybe I don't think either of us made the other person feel that way per se, but we wanted to be inclusive and pull our partner in and really talk through every little decision. And you know, that's like going from one to two kids.

It's just, it's not one plus one is two. It's like one plus one is three. There's just greater complexity, more things going on. So, it really feels exponential going to four kids and it just became too much stuff for us to be involved in every single decision and so we had to decide to make out lanes where Kelly is either points on this area or I’m point and it was through trial and error but we'd figure out over time okay what decisions do we feel good about making as the point person for our area and then when does it become important enough where we should really pull that person in to make the decision, or is it just a time to inform them of the decision being made and then give them an opportunity if they have a strong point of view to weigh in.

And so examples are like you know, with things relating to the school, Kelly's home more with the kids. She's making most of those decisions. Unless it's a really big 1, like, switching schools like we did a couple of years ago. Then we both talk about it. For me I manage like our family taxes and some of the financial decisions.

And it's not to say she's not included. We have sit downs and talk about that, et cetera. But day to day, she feels comfortable with me leading that. So that's been the approach and it's working better so far. It just seemed to not scale trying to have everyone involved in every decision.

Adam: Yeah. It's like you mentioned, it's like growing a company, right? At some point, not at, you don't have a two pizza team anymore. Not everybody can like sit around the table and know everything that's going on at all times. Nor does it make sense for everybody to know that.

Brian: No. And you probably recall that feels uncomfortable in a startup. Like you want to be, you're there early enough to know almost everything. And then how do you let go of your Legos in a sense? And it felt similar to us raising a family too.

Adam: Yeah, yeah with 4 kids and, you know, you mentioned like, you know, maybe on a weekend, like we're zigging and zagging in different directions. I've got 2 kids over here. You got 2 kids over there. Like, how do you and Kelly prioritize time? With each other, kids can be very needy, as we all know, as most people who listen to this show will know.

And you know, you have four of them, so you're outnumbered. Do you do anything explicit with Kelly to kind of protect that time together or make time for conversation, connecting with your partner, like just time when the kids aren't around to make it work?

Brian: Yeah. I would say a few things. One is we probably skew a little bit more towards doing things, the two of us versus going out with friends and doing other things. And, you know, we do value friendships, but, there's only so many hours in the day. And so we probably socialize a little bit less than maybe some other families.

So that's one thing. We're pretty simple. We like to just stay in and cook meals together at night after the kids go down. We have our date night after bedtime. We have a fire pit in our backyard. We like to split a bottle of wine and hang out and talk and listen to music. That's kind of our thing.

We try to pre plan those dates, whether they be stay in or if we're getting a babysitter to go out. So just put some out on the calendar because it's too easy to, like, have everything bleed into our time. If it's not pre scheduled. And the last thing I would add is we are both really big into fitness and working out.

And so, we both carve out time and it's sort of sacred time for each of us to do our own workouts. We're doing them independently or sometimes we'll go on a date and like, my parents will watch our kids. We'll go for a hike in the hills. I'll throw on a weight vest. And that's our exercise, but we're talking and connecting while we work out and blending the two.

Adam: I love that. We're going to come back to that exercise thing. Cause you mentioned it's sort of your parent sanity hack so you, you know, you mentioned that Kelly has more time home with the kids and I know she was a consultant earlier in her career and now it sounds like she kind of runs the Rothenberg family household.

You know, and I don't imagine that that was an easy decision for you, for her, like collectively. So what was that process like of her deciding, I'm going to step back from some of the things that I've done and, you know, my kind of career ambition and run the household.

What was that like?

Brian: It's been an evolution. I would say, like, I always tell Kelly, she's the smarter of the two of us. She is really, really brilliant. Went to UC Berkeley undergrad, Columbia MBA. It was the only undergrad to be hired by BCG straight out of college. Like, she was very driven, very career oriented and did exceptionally well, and so I'm very proud of her for that. But simultaneously, like her mom focused on the household growing up and she aspired to doing that.

And so I've always been supportive of what she wanted to do, and she chose that. So, as we started thinking about having a family, the consultant lifestyle where she was literally flying from SFO to Geneva, Switzerland and back every week. It's just not conducive to trying to have a family. And so she made the decision to step back, go into an in house strategy and consulting role.

So that was kind of step one of her trading family for career. And then, you know, as we had, one kid, two kids. She stayed in the outside of the home workforce. When we had three, we both talked and she decided, okay, now's the time I want to focus on home. And she's been doing that since. And I think, you know, it can be very rewarding to raise a family.

It can also be very, thankless, you know, when you're up to your elbows in dirty diapers and being yelled at by three year old tyrants. Uh, And so I don't know, I, I try to reinforce that she always has the hardest job and how much I appreciate her, but it can be thankless. And so I think someday she'll go back and do something else.

She was pre med undergrad and talked about being a pediatrician. She's talked about going back to school and becoming a physician's assistant in pediatrics, so I'm sure she'll go on and have another career that is very fulfilling and exciting, but she's decided to focus on home for right now.

Adam: And I mean, never a dull moment in your household, I imagine. So she's probably on her toes a lot. So.

Brian: Always.

Adam: All right. I want to transition and talk a little bit about Early fatherhood for Brian. What's the earliest memory that you have of becoming a dad?

Brian: Yeah. One of the earliest ones that felt really real to me, cause it was kind of like theoretical at the earliest stages was seeing the heartbeat of our son Chase for the first time. And I think later seeing the 3d image, if you've done that of the baby and like, it's like, oh my gosh, this little creature is mine and will be a baby in the flesh.

And so that, that was a really surreal moment. I remember sort of tearing up and awkwardly half laughing, half crying at the same time. It was very, it was much more emotion than I think I anticipated. So that is a cool memory. And then the second is when Chase was born he had to go under the lights for jaundice treatment.

And I remember standing over him and he was clinging to my pinky finger with his little hand and just being there with him and feeling so protective and connecting with him in that way. That was a really special moment too.

Adam: Yeah. Wow. That's pretty awesome. What are some of the more surprising things that you've discovered as a dad?

Brian: A couple. One is mentioned this earlier, but I never thought I'd be a more than a two kid dad. But really coming to love the fullness of our household with four. And even though it's chaotic and I feel kind of off kilter sometimes. I also feel out of whack when our kids are not in the house.

It just feels kind of empty. So I love that. The other thing I've come to learn is just how selfless you need to be to be a good parent. I think I probably came to the realization after having kids that I was much more self absorbed than I even realized as a single person or just, you know, married without kids.

And so having to give that up and, it's been a, an evolution for me, but I think it's made me hopefully a better spouse and a better person but that was a difficult shift.

Adam: We'll come back to that topic here in a little bit. But I did want to ask you one thing, which is, you know, you've now got four kids, so, you've probably received no shortage of advice. Every new kid is a new opportunity for advice. Also, you live near all of your parents.

So, and one thing we know about parents, they like to dispense advice to their adult children. So, I'd love to ask you, you know, if you could rewind the clock and you're giving advice to Brian, you know, a decade ago before your first kid is born, what is a piece of advice that you would give to the younger version of yourself?

Brian: I think helping the younger version of myself understand that selfless aspect that I talked about and making that evolution faster, I think it would have been more painless had I come to terms with that and given up more early on. So that's one thing. I don't know if it's advice or more of just a saying, but something that's resonated with me that I think one of my parents told me it was you're never happier than your least happy child.

And I don't know, it stuck with me. It's kind of like, yeah if any of our kids is struggling, you know, I just want to put my effort there and see how I can help that child because I'm not going to be any happier than she or he is.

Adam: That's a really good one. I'm not, sure that I've ever heard that phrase before, but I like it. I'm going to hold that one.

Brian: Take it. It's yours.

Adam: It’s now mine, like so many other pieces of advice. Now, if you, what about the opposite end of the spectrum? If you thought about some of the advice that you got as a parent or as a you know, parent to be, and you can rewind the clock, what would you tell younger Brian to just ignore? What did you find not very useful in all the advice that you got?

Brian: I think this relates to having two parents and two in laws within a 10 mile radius. In some ways, it kind of takes you back to your childhood. And I think, you know, the grandparents went through their own evolution of we are grandparents. Now we are not parents any longer. And so that was an interesting series of interactions that we had.

And I think one thing I would have gotten more comfortable with faster is just owning my own parenting style and Kelly's and being fine, just disagreeing with the advice from our parents. And yeah, there are certainly many things that were super helpful. And, you know, there are things also where they gave advice and we picked a different direction and gosh, they were actually right, but we had to learn our own way. And so, yeah, I think it would have just been don't stress as much about what they're saying and just kind of like be okay with our approach and take the pieces we want and leave the rest and don't stress about it.

Adam: I love that. You got to kind of carve your own path and decide what inputs you're going to take. It's like building a product, a lot of stakeholders, but you don't have to listen to every piece of advice.

On that note, because you have so many, kids, what's the favorite book in the household that you like to read to your kids?

Brian: So many, but I think the favorite is probably Dragons Love Tacos. Have you read that book?

Adam: I know it. I know it. Yes. And they can't eat spicy food.

Brian: They get tummy troubles. And yeah, it's just so funny. I feel like it's half written for parents. It's, I don't know. I love the style.

Adam: Yeah. Is that one of those books? I don't know about you, but there's some books that I've read so many times to my kids that I basically can just flip the pages and not even look at the words and just like recite it from memory. Have you gotten there with Dragons Love Tacos yet?

Brian: I need like the first four or five words of the paragraph and then it all comes back. Yes. It's not complete memorization, but pretty close.

Adam: Yeah. I strive to get there someday with The Lorax. That's the final boss of book memorization for me, but I love that story so much.

Brian: That's a good one, too.

Adam: Okay. Now I wanted to ask you about partnership. There's a lot of decisions to be made in your household with four kids, probably double the decisions in my household. And it's hard to agree all the time with your spouse when there's so many things happening, how do you and Kelly get on the same page and manage that natural conflict that occurs in a really busy household?

Brian: I think like most parents or couples we've had our moments of conflict. It has not been an entirely smooth 11 years of marriage to be candid. And, you know, there was one source of conflict, which related to the parents and in laws that I mentioned earlier. And you know, it became

A huge thing for us and something that we had to work through and it felt quite serious. And I think it almost felt intractable at the time, but you know, I think each of us found ways to move towards one another. And so I guess the headline is like, knowing you have to get on the same page for the big things, but you also have to know when to sort of fold the cards and give towards the other person.

And that has been an evolution for Kelly and I. We're both type a and alphas in our own ways. We're both firstborn children. We can be quite stubborn and we like to dig our heels in. So yeah, you can imagine that creates some head bumps sometimes, but yeah, I think both of us, I will compliment us in that.

We have both matured a lot in that regard. We don't feel the need to be as right or to dig in firmly to our positions. There are times now where she may feel very differently from me, but she can tell something's very important to me and she'll cave to my side or vice versa. And I think related to that is we've built a lot of trust in one another around our lanes that we are sort of the point people on for division of responsibility earlier.

And sometimes even if my instinct is not the same as hers, I know she's usually right in certain areas and I just kind of concede to her. So I don't know. It's been a lot of like, maturation probably on both of our parts and knowing when to cede to the other person.

Adam: Yeah. I love that the two type A parents, right? You've got like serial startup founder, no opinions there. Right. And then a management consultant. that's going to come to a head at some point. I'm glad the two of you have figured out some ways to work through it.

What is an area where the two of you, you know, still don't entirely see eye to eye? You mentioned maybe a couple to me when we were prepping for this.

Brian: Yeah. I'd say one is, is risk taking and perceived versus real risk. And each of us have different points of view. And you know, as you might gather from my background I'm very much a risk taker. Like I want to lean in, go start companies, you know, invest in the earliest stage founders I can find.

That's a high level of risk. Kelly grew up in a household where her dad was at Goldman Sachs for 25 years. She went into a big, you know, big management consulting firm, like The more stable sort of known path was what she knew and resonated with her. And then I won't go into all the details, but Kelly did experience a loss, at a formative time of her life.

And it was a situation where it's kind of an edge case, like 999 times out of 1000, this person would not have died. But a person that was important to her did pass away. And so I think she views the world in a different light than I do, like the bad things can happen. Whereas I'm an optimist and a risk taker.

And I think, well, it's not going to happen because that stuff doesn't happen. So anyways I would say around our kids, it's like just different levels of risk of what's okay. You know, like one topic was, will we let our sons play tackle football or not. And how do we feel about that? So anyways, we just come to realize we're on different ends of the spectrum.

We view things differently, but it sometimes is a source of conflict for us.

Adam: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. I used to consider myself much more of a risk taker. I think I've actually headed in the opposite direction now I'm like, oh my God, don't get hurt. I don't know. It's just My dad radar is like fully on all the time, you know, even though nothing really knock on wood has ever happened to my kids.

Brian: yeah, on the topic of coming to the other partner I now have come to be like dad with the head on the swivel, like protecting the kids and making sure they're off to the side. So, I'm learning to come towards her.

Adam: Yeah, well, also, you know, when you've got four of them. So like, if you all descend on a park and then they all scatter to the wind, like you like chasing after a bunch of kids, that would be a, that would be hectic. So I wanted to ask you. You know, you have built an entire career in technology, right?

From Yahoo to starting a couple of companies to Eventbrite, taking a public, now you invest in technology companies. How do you think about the relationship that you want your kids to have with technology as they get older?

Brian: I think like a lot of people in Silicon Valley, I think that we are revolting a little bit from just how ingrained some of the tech has become in our day to day lives. We are not like fully anti screen time, but we are probably gonna be one of the last people to let our kids have an iPhone or a phone.

We limit screen time around the house. And yeah, I don't mean to cast judgment on anyone who chooses not to take that path, but I think that kids, from what I observe, like we go out to dinner, we see how many kids are like heads down in a device. And I've seen how it seems to have affected their social interaction capabilities and sort of the EQ side.

And so in the era of AI, that's coming right now, I think human skills, interpersonal skills, leadership, being able to interact with other humans will actually become more important and more differentiated. So we're just trying to emphasize that with our kids. We try to spend a lot of time outdoors in nature, less screen time, really focus on teaching you know, when you meet Mr. Smith and shake their hand and look in their eyes and kind of go against the, like, let's go into our little world in a screen and live there.

Adam: That makes a lot of sense. And I think it is interesting. I think as people who are leaders in the world of technology, we sort of have a front row seat to the good and the less good that technology can bring into our lives. So I think a couple of the things that you mentioned that are really important to think about, especially the interpersonal stuff. I agree with you that that's going to just become even more important as technology kind of becomes more and more ingrained in our lives. So, you mentioned this idea when you became a dad of learning how to shift to more selflessness, so being very focused on yourself and then realizing, like, that's not how that works anymore once you're a dad.

How did you give up that idea of being self absorbed or self interested and shift?

Brian: I think through some gentle and some not so gentle prodding from Kelly um, you know, like she had to sit me down at one point. I remember and say, like, you are being selfish here and like, you know, you need to let go of some of this. And so we had some tough conversations, oh, another thing is, you know, I think like a lot of people I've dealt with imposter syndrome over my career, like sort of, yeah, not always feeling like I deserve to be in the seat I'm in, or, you know, I can always do more and part of, you know, one of the ways that I managed that anxiety was by just working harder.

I always felt like if I work harder well, I can overcome that or whatever. And so I've had to let go of some of that. Like, I still feel like I work really hard, but I don't work for the sake of being in motion. I work for getting shit done and being productive and having to let go of some of the hours to you know, make sure I'm present for dinner with the kids as much as possible or other things.

So, those are a couple of things.

Adam: Makes sense. Now, one of the things that you mentioned, and you talked about this a little bit earlier that you and Kelly haven't had to give up or that actually maybe you prioritized even more now that you're a family of six, there's probably a dog in the mix there somewhere, right?

Brian: There is Rosie. She's in the background.

Adam: So one of those things is exercise. And you mentioned that that's like your parent, you know, lifeline your sanity, Why is that so important for you? And, And how do you and Kelly with four kids help each other make time to prioritize that?

Brian: Yeah, for us, four kids and working a lot and commuting and everything. It's just, it's so overwhelming sometimes both emotionally and it's exhausting. But we found that for both of us, exercise is not only like a physical health benefit, but also mental health. It de-stresses both of us. And it's really critical.

And I don't know, it just carries through, both of us were athletes growing up and through college and really important to us. So I think it would probably be really hard if one spouse, you know, valued that highly and the other didn't, but we're very protective of one another's time to do that.

Like, on Sunday, we got home from taking our kids to Legoland. We had 40 minutes before we were getting together with friends for the 49ers game. Sad that we lost, but we each did a 20 minute hiit circuit, you know, back to back in that 40 minute window and covered the kids in those other times.

So we just find ways to cram it in. And again, it's like mental health, it's sanity so that we can deal with the chaos when we come back to it and forcing there to be time for the other person and for ourselves and just making it part of our day to day.

Adam: Yeah. I love that. This idea of like, a lot of people would look at a 40 minute or a 20 minute window and say, oh, I don't have time for this right now, but just sort of like ripping the bandaid off and be like, no we're going to make this work. There is a way to feel satisfied in a 15 or 20 minute workout.

So, and that's kind of the challenge when you're a parent, you got to find a way to fit that in.

Brian: Yeah.

Adam: What is a mistake that you've made as a father?

Brian: Gosh. A lot. One that really jumps out to me is when our firstborn son Chase was a little over one. He was in a swing and oh, this is another example where my dad said something about it. The swing was set up over a concrete patio, which was really stupid in hindsight, should have been over tan bark or something.

My father commented on it. I brushed it aside, but when I was taking chase out, he sort of wriggled free and I just lost him. I, he slipped and he went face first into the ground. And it was absolutely terrifying. I didn't know if he was concussed. We had to rush him to the Children's Hospital. It ended up, you know, he had a black eye, but he was okay.

But it was so terrifying. It's such a terrible mistake. And I think yeah, those things can happen to everyone. But reinforce the importance of like really being present and thinking about those moments where the bad things like Kelly would warn me about can happen. So just really be in the moment and focus on that.

Yeah, I think that's the biggest one. I guess the other thing that's kind of like ongoing for me is you know, our kids can really grate on us over time. And so, like, I lose my temper. I'm human and I'm just working to not raise my voice too much and be more calm. A couple of my coping mechanisms are I'm on a two day streak, so I won't congratulate myself too much, but I've meditated the last two days.

I really tried to do it, really tried to do it in the mornings and it makes me calmer and more, more present. And the other thing is when we go into situations where we just know there's probably going to be something that's chaotic or like, Brooks, our third is going to go crazy and have a tantrum.

We sort of mentally prep ourselves and we found that to be a way to like, if we know it's going to come, it's somehow easier to deal with when it's there versus we go in naively and then it happens. That's harder.

Adam: Yeah. I'm not a meditator. Maybe at some point I will be, but that second one that you mentioned there is one that I've found super beneficial for me. It took me a long time to get there, but this idea of like, hey, if I know, you know, there's a likelihood that something's going to happen here.

And I set the bar very low for my expectations. Then when things inevitably go wrong, eh, I was expecting it. The bar is pretty low there. So, you know, I think it takes as parents for us to like fall in our faces. for us to like realize, oh,

there's a pattern here. Like I can steal my resolve. I know this is going to happen.

Brian: There's this phrase that I also like it's happiness equals expectations minus reality. So if you, if you like set your expectations a little bit lower, like you're going to just be happier.

Adam: Yep. Yep. I love that one. The other thing I found too, is like, you know, my wife and I will have a conversation sometimes before we're going into these situations. We're like, okay. What she gave me a pep talk one time was like, hey, you know that this is going to happen. So just be prepared. Right? Like, an example of that is like for us is. You're coming back from like a holiday or a transition or something, you know, that first Monday is going to be real rough when you enter back into society.

So just, you know, set the bar very low. So, last thing I wanted to ask you in our time together before the rapid fire round is I wanted to ask you a little bit about startup hustle culture. And this is something that I think you have an interesting and unique perspective on because not only have you been a founder of a startup and been part of a super high growth, fast growing IPO company, but you also invest in founders now.

And so how do you think, about this idea of startup hustle culture? How does the idea of working in and around startups fit in with family life for you?

Brian: I mean, you know this, but startups are a shit ton of work. So much work goes into it. And so it's tough. And I don't know that there is a true balance, but I’m lucky to work now with founders that I've invested in some of which are, you know, single or don't have kids and several of which have families and young families.

And so I see it on both sides and I've experienced it on both sides. You know, I will admit something that I'm now really quite ashamed of, but before I had kids, I probably did pass judgment about people leaving work early. You know, again, back to like the hours put in, that's sort of how I managed my stress, just work harder.

But it doesn't need to be that way. I don't think, I mean, of course you have to put in the hours, get the job done, but it can be done more flexibly than I probably appreciated early on. I think. In aggregate, I work harder now with the family than I did when I was single, even though I'm maybe in the office fewer hours overall.

It's just a different type of work. I think honestly, you know, parents are more evolved in some ways and more efficient and just know like, okay, what has to get done and what's the nice to have and just focus on the 20 percent that drives 80 percent of the results. And I see that with founders as well.

I guess the last thing I'd say is I think consistent balance is a myth. I think it's just almost impossible and you'll probably drive yourself crazy if you try to always stay in that state. But it's more like a pendulum, like it might swing heavier to work for a period of time. You just have to get something done.

But then, you know, I like forcing ways to push the pendulum back to the family side through vacations or even like we've done staycations as a family. I'll just take some time off, be at home with the kids, do some fun things, not necessarily travel, but have time to reconnect as a family. So I think it can be done, but it's certainly a challenge to balance both startup lifestyle and a present family life.

Adam: Yeah. And I think that pendulum that you mentioned, you know, again, for people who are very driven, like yourself, your wife, other startup founders that you might talk to, it helps to know that, you know, everything is sort of, in a season of change and like, this is not going to be this way forever.

And then we'll be able to swing that pendulum. And so if you recognize that, then, you know, like, this isn't how life's going to be forever, right? It's a temporary situation. And then we'll move into a different temporary situation. So I think that's a really good way to think about it as a sort of pendulum where sometimes you got to lean in on work.

Sometimes you got to lean in at home. It's impossible to thread that needle perfectly. So you just have to figure out what's going to work for you. All right. Well, on that note, Brian, how can people follow along with your journey or be helpful to you? Where should I direct people here?

Brian: Yeah, so you can find me on X or formerly known as Twitter at B. M. Rothenberg. B. M. R. O. T. H. E. N. B. E. R. G. You can also find me on linkedin. Just search for my name, Brian Rothenberg and how people can help. I'm always looking for amazing early stage founders. So if you are one, or if you know someone great, please send those folks my way.

I'd love to talk to them.

Adam: Awesome. I will do that. And I'm sure my listeners will as well. You probably get some pitches after this. Now, Are you ready for the rapid fire round?

Brian: I'm ready.

Adam: Here we go. What is the most indispensable parenting product you have ever purchased?

Brian: Gosh. It's a crib net. It's a net that goes over the crib to keep our kids in the crib. Our kids are wild people. They always try to get out and this has been a way to save them from themselves.

Adam: Can't take a tumble over the edge of the crib when the net is in place. Love that. What is the most useless parenting product that you have ever purchased?

Brian: Oh gosh. Too many of those sippy cups. Like I don't even remember drinking water as a kid. Why do our kids need a, you know, water with them all the time?

Adam: I love that. All right. Finish this sentence. The ideal day with my kids involves this one activity.

Brian: I love hiking with my kids. Just get me outside and go on a hike.

Adam: Awesome. With the weight vest. Most of the time.

Brian: Sometimes, most of the time, I would say.

Adam: Okay. All right. Which one of your kids is your favorite?

Brian: I love all my kids the same, but the baby is always the favorite. So it's Taylor, our three year old.

Adam: It's been a rotation, right? Whoever is the baby gets the, yes. Cool. What is your go to dad wardrobe?

Brian: Probably the Buori, Sunday jogger pants usually a t shirt usually college, UFC, and the Patagonia fleece jacket.

Adam: Awesome. The Viorey Sunday jogger is a dad favorite on the pod. I think Brian Balfour, also a huge Sunday jogger fan, Brian, who you know.

Brian: Good taste.

Adam: Yeah, very good taste. How many parenting books would you say you have in your house?

Brian: Anywhere between 45 and 70.

Adam: Wow, that is quite a library. And how many parenting books have you actually read cover to cover?

Brian: Zero.

Adam: You're not alone.

Brian: Kelly's the more avid reader. I read the CliffsNotes.

Adam: You're the snippets, yeah. This is where AI can really come in handy, I think. What is the favorite ages for your kids so far?

Brian: So far, probably 7 to 9. I feel like we have a lot more that we can do together, get out, go to sporting events. They actually want to spend time with us still, which I'm clinging to because I know that'll change. But it's been a great age range.

Adam: it changes in a hurry and then it just falls right off a cliff.

Brian: That's right.

Adam: Okay. What is your least favorite age for your kids?

Brian: Probably two, like right when they hit the terrible twos, just so hard to manage.

Adam: Yeah. What is the most embarrassing thing that you've ever done in front of one of your kids?

Brian: This year when I was dropping off our kids at school my son, Chase, our oldest, who's nine was chatting with his buddies right in front of his classroom, I instinctively reached over like leaned in and give him a kiss on the head, say goodbye. And he looked mortified, like he was so embarrassed and he let me know it. So that, that was an embarrassing moment, probably more so for him, but I felt it on his behalf.

Adam: Oh, wow. Just the like vitriol staring you down. Don't ever do that again, Dad.

Brian: It was painful.

Adam: Oh, what is the most absurd thing that your kid has ever asked you to buy for them or one of your kids?

Brian: I'll name two things. I'll cheat. One Brooks asked us for a McLaren F1. One of those recently sold for 18 million on auction. So that was a no go. The second one is he asked for a machine gun like the ones that the Navy SEALs use. So I had to explain that that was both unsafe and illegal and not appropriate.

And we were not getting one.

Adam: I love that. It's your, the five year old that third child that you mentioned both wants the 18 million dollar racing car, and then also the machine gun.

Brian: That's Brooks. In a nutshell.

Adam: What is the most difficult kids TV show that you have had to sit through?

Brian:It's a tie between Cocomelon and Blippi, if you're familiar with either.

Adam: Oh, familiar with both. I'm not going to go into the details here, but Blippi has a very interesting backstory. You should research the guy who did Blippi. You will never watch that show in the same way again. So.

Brian:I'm terrified. Okay, yikes.

Adam: What about your favorite? What's your favorite kids movie or TV show?

Brian: My son has been really, Chase has been into Indiana Jones lately, and so it's been really fun to rewatch those with him.

Adam: Cool. Do you have another sort of nostalgic film that you just can't wait to, like, force your kids to sit through?

Brian: Probably the Die Hard series. 

Adam: A classic Christmas movie. Um, yeah.

Brian: Home Alone is probably the kids favorite Christmas time movie.

Adam: Home Alone is a good one. I, you know, as an adult, that movie is just so stupid. But I've never heard my kids laugh harder at a movie than they did when they watched that, and that brought me so much joy. It's pretty fun. When you think about, now this is going to go back, this is hearkening back to your TaskRabbit days.

What is the worst experience that you've ever had assembling a kid's toy or a piece of furniture? Or do you just outsource it all to TaskRabbit?

Brian: We have outsourced it, but I think our biggest mistake was saving all of the assembly for the night before Christmas, and Christmas Eve, after we've hosted, I think I was up till like two in the morning one time, just doing the last assembly, and so that was not fun.

Adam: Yeah, you gotta phase it in. When you, I mean, I have to phase it in with two kids. You have to phase it in probably even more, so.

Brian: It was insane. Won't do that again.

Adam: Have you ever mixed up your kids' names?

Brian: Every day. I have this weird affliction where my mom has this, my grandmother has it. I mistake each of their names. I'll go through and I might want to address Brooks and I'll say, Charlie, er, Chase, Taylor, Brooks. And I'll just go through in some random order. It's really odd, but yes, all the time.

Adam: Through, run through the cycle. Yes, that's awesome. All right. I'm very curious about this next one because you have four kids and a dog. I don't know if there's other pets in the household, but how long can a piece of food sit on the floor and the Rothenberg household? And you will still eat it.

Brian: Me, I would say a minute. I know too long. I, my, my standards have gone downhill. Just today our dog Rosie got a hold of a sandwich and took it to the floor and I think we cut off the end of it and still ate the other piece.

 No judgment. It's just survival.

Adam: None, just survival instinct in a family of six plus the dog. How often do you tell your kids back in my day stories?

Brian: At least once a week. I mentioned earlier, Kelly and I are both athletes or were growing up. And so it's usually around like how kids are so soft these days or like they need to toughen up and reliving the glory days. It was really fun this weekend. We went to Legoland and Kelly was a great basketball player growing up and our son Brooks wanted to win one of those giant stuffed animals that like the carnival games that they have.

And Kelly made a three point shot and swished it on a sub regulation size hoop to win this prize for Brooks. And she was like the hero. And we were cheering for her and dad was telling old Kelly high school basketball stories

Adam: And you gotta be really good to hit that shot cause they over inflate the ball and then they shrink the rim and it's super hard. It is impossible. Yeah.

Brian: It was insane. It was like the prettiest shot I’d seen.

Adam: Wow. Wow. I'm going to draft Kelly next time we play three on three. That's awesome. Okay. What is the strangest place that you've ever found a diaper?

Brian: think I found a soiled diaper tucked in like a little nook on the side of the car, like one of those pocket things where I think we changed a kid in a fury and then like stuffed it in there and forgot. And then, you know, when it's searching for the smell later.

Adam: The car is a popular one. The glove box is also a popular answer. I don't know why it ever ends up in the glove box, but hey, it happens. And finally, speaking of glove boxes, what's your take on minivans? You've got a lot of kids. So curious about your take here.

Brian: We had the debate and minivans, well, so practical. We're an SUV family just couldn't get over the hump. So Ford expedition max to haul all the kids and the dog and all our gear.

Adam: That is a large vehicle but it is not a minivan, so you've won. Was Kelly team minivan?

Brian: No, she was team SUV. Yeah. So I would have been more open to the minivan, but she drives it more often, so she won out.

Adam: She she gets the say. Well I love that. And on that note, Brian, that brings us to a close for the day. Thank you so much for your candor and for your stories and talking about the small army of children that you have in your household.

I very much appreciate it. It was a pleasure having you on the show.

Brian: It was so great to be here, Adam. Good to see you again. And thank you for having me.

Adam: Thank you for listening to today's conversation with Brian Rothenberg. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe, share, and leave me a review. It'll help other people find this podcast. Startup Dad is a Fishman AF production. With editing support from Tommy Herron, you can join a community of nearly 10,000 subscribers and stay up to date on my thoughts on growth, product, and parenting by subscribing to the Fishman AF Newsletter at www.fishmanafnewsletter.com. Thanks for listening, see you next week.