Your Family Is Your #1 Investor | Cory O'Daniel (Dad of 2, co-founder and CEO, Massdriver)

[00:00:00] Cory: And I had this conversation with my wife, I'm like, I'm taking out about three more months from my retirement. And I'm taking this like out of my own, like IRA thingy, thingamajig.

So like every time I take money out, like I'm getting taxed by the government for pulling it out. Right. And I'm like, I'm going to take out about three more months of our bills from my retirement, I was like, but, you know, if in three months, like, it doesn't look like this is going well, tell me and I'll stop. And it was just like, like that was it. Like she had the emergency break if she was ready to pull it.

[00:00:29] Adam: Welcome to Startup Dad, the podcast where we dive deep into the lives of dads who are also leaders in the world of startups and business. I'm your host, Adam Fishman. In today's conversation, I sat down with Cory O'Daniel. Cory is the co-founder and CEO of MassDriver, a platform designed to simplify and streamline the management of cloud infrastructure and DevOps processes.

Cory has been a software architect and engineer for 20 years, leading up to the founding of MassDriver. He's also a husband and the father of two kids. Today's conversation was a raw, emotional, and authentic one. We spoke about time dedication, to yourself, your spouse, and each of your kids individually, why Cory thinks kids brains are so much bigger than we typically think, how he and his wife have become more anti tech in their household, and the benefits they're seeing in being present, creating opportunities for over the top play and imagination, and the conversations they had as he was borrowing from their retirement savings to start MassDriver.

There was laughter and tears in our conversation today, and I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. 

[00:01:43] Adam: I would like to welcome Cory O'Daniel to the Startup Dad podcast. Cory, really excited for this conversation. Thanks for joining me today.

[00:01:54] Cory: Thanks

for having me, Adam. This is one I'm excited for too. I get so many that are all like hardcore tech and I like dadding. So, that's my hobby.

[00:02:02] Adam: And you're calling in from the dad shed

[00:02:04] Cory: It as a classy dad shed. Now you'll see that I haven't finished my backyard because now I have children. So I don't have time for all that yard work, but I'm going to get there when they're about 18,

[00:02:14] Adam: The best part about finishing the backyard when you have kids is that they will go on to destroy the backyard. So it's not even worth it, you know,

[00:02:21] Cory: My son's entered the sword fighting age where he wants to sword fight everything. And unfortunately for the plants, they're his height.

[00:02:29] Adam: He's taking down a few a few vicious plants in his day.

[00:02:33] Cory: It's nice cause I don't have to trim the rosemary anymore. It's just like, it's at his height though. So it's not as optimal as I'd like it.

[00:02:39] Adam: This is a new, this is like a dad hack is just like, give your kid the sword and let them go nuts.

[00:02:45] Cory: It's not a real sword. It's a sword we made out of extremely sharpened walnut.

[00:02:50] Adam: I love that. That's awesome. This is what the show is all about. we do like to talk for just a brief second about what would you say you do here? I'm very curious to hear about your professional background because you are a founder and a CEO.

You've gone through YC, right? You went through YC.

[00:03:07] Cory: Did the YC thing.

[00:03:08] Adam: talk a little bit about that today. So, tell me a bit about you professionally and your company.

[00:03:14] Cory: Yeah, I've been an infrastructure like operations and software engineer for 25 years now, almost 26, which is crazy. I live in LA, so you can't tell I'm that old cause all the botox. so, you know, I've worked in startups since 2006 when I first moved to California and I've started a couple but never as a CEO.

And so I started MassDriver about four years ago with two of my best buds and they were like, you're the most social one. So you're the CEO. So that's how you get promoted to CEO folks is you just start a company with two friends that don't like to talk as much. So here I am. And so, yeah, so I mean, we're an infrastructure automation platform.

So essentially, you know, managing things in the cloud for folks, trying to make it easier for any developer to, you know, get secure compliant cloud infrastructure without necessarily becoming an ops engineer, right? Like that's not what they're paid to do. They're paid the ship value. They're paid to build products.

But unfortunately we have this cloud thing we have to contend with.

[00:04:12] Adam: Yeah. Very cool. And how long have you been at it with MassDriver now? How old is the company?

[00:04:17] Cory: Yeah, the company is just about four years old. The technology is about 16 years old. It's been something I've been like pseudo hacking on for a very long time. yeah.

[00:04:27] Adam: All right. Well, I'm just going to come right out and ask because you did this on LinkedIn, how does one of your kids pooping in the bathtub help you with enterprise sales?

[00:04:38] Cory: So this is one of my literal, this is one of my literal shit posts. So every, like, I honestly, I'm not a fan of social media. I don't like it. I signed up for Twitter back in the day when people would like tweet about like, Oh, I had a great sandwich here or whatever. Right. And I don't know, like, I feel like it's consumed us as humans.

And so I have to do social as like the marketing person of our company. And so I just recently, I was just like, I can't do this every day. Like I need to like be me a bit more. And so I've just kind of taken Friday as like, I'm going to post whatever deranged thing comes out of my head during the week on Fridays.

And usually it'll be like me hearing a bad opinion and then just like coming out and being like, I agree with this bad opinion and going over the top into it. But just. Absolutely not. It's fun. It's fun seeing people getting caught in that trap. And so the pooping one was funny because my daughter actually pooped in the bathtub.

My kids are close enough in age that they take baths together, which just immediately makes my son panic. And so I was just like, okay, how do I turn this into a shit post? And so I just tried to stretch as much as I could. I'm like, okay, like. You know, like enterprise sales is dirty.

Like you got to get in there. Like you really got to just kind of pull the sales out. Like think things are unexpected. You don't know what's going to happen. People are freaking out. Like there's a lot of stress and anxiety around spending a bunch of money on a software product.

Right. And so, it was just try and like sitting there, I'm like, how do I make analogies between poop and something that absolutely does suck?

[00:06:03] Adam: Amazing. And it got some pickup. I'm sure some people were like, is this guy serious? Is this…where are we at here?

[00:06:11] Cory: I think I did a good enough job to draw parallels that people were like, that's actually. That's actually kind of close. So it was one of those ones. It was like, maybe this isn't a shit post, but it's just like, no, this one literally is.

[00:06:22] Adam: Did you end up on LinkedIn lunatics after that one?

[00:06:24] Cory: No, that's my whole point of Friday. I want to be on it so bad.

I want to be on it so bad. So I think that stuff's so funny.

[00:06:30] Adam: Congrats on least obscuring the shitpost enough so that people bought it.

[00:06:37] Cory: The best is when they can't tell like that is the best one, especially when you have people that like when you do the political ones like I used to do those on Reddit and when you get one that's so good, you make both sides mad. I'm like, Oh my gosh, like this is my joy. I just sit back and watch them argue.

that's me being like a mid anarchist.

[00:06:54] Adam: That's all right. That's all right. You gotta have an outlet. So, so I want to go back in time. Tell me about you as a kid. What were you like, what was life like growing up?

[00:07:03] Cory: Oh man, life was, I mean, life was good, but life was hard in retrospect. My parents actually did an amazing job of not letting us know that we had it rough. So, I was born and raised in Felicity, Ohio, which has about 180 people to date. It's like near kind of the Kentucky border. So I was raised on a tobacco and apple farm.

My parents were, I think it was sharecroppers. Like they didn't own the farm. They just kind of did the work. Yeah, so I was raised there. My parents moved to Cincinnati, Ohio when I was about eight and one of my first memories that was like an actual, my memory, not something that was relayed to me, I feel like there's so many of these in my head where I'm like, I remember this from the farm, but it was like a photo I saw, or like a story I was told one of my first like real memories was me and my buddy, Zach Peterson, dude, wherever you are today, dude, if you hear this, find me, man, I've tried finding you, but there's a lot of people with your name.

There's only two Cory O’Daniels brother. I remember and I climbing into the dumpster behind our apartment complex looking for toys.

[00:08:04] Adam: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm

[00:08:05] Cory: Like that was like, that was growing up. And I remember I found this really rad, like, like F1 fighter thing. Like one of the wings was kind of broken.

It was missing the plastic thing on top. And I was like, this is cool enough. And so we moved to Florida, I think around like maybe 10 or 11, because my parents were there. My grandparents were having some issues. And so just kind of raised in a like lower middle class family. I was the first of about 36 cousins, Catholic, Irish grandparents.

So they just couldn't stop breeding, you know? There's this grandpa's like, what in the fuck's a condom? So I have a ton of cousins. I was the first cousin to, you know, go to college and really like, I just had this thing growing up. I was into punk rock. I was like a little bit of a, I was like a good rebel, had really good grades, but I was just like, ah, this town sucks.

I was in a really small town called Lehigh acres, Florida. Not as small as Felicity, but I was just like, I got to get out of this town. And like everybody I knew that was like there in an adult was like, born there, raised there, stuck there. And I was like, I've got to figure out how to get out of this.

So the only way I saw, like I saw my brother and sister, like not make it as well. my sibling situation is extremely complicated. That's a, Hallmark television story. But my brother and sister that I lived with, like, I just saw them not making it. I was like they're going to be here for life. And I was like, I got to figure out how to get out. Like we didn't have the money to get out, didn't have the money for college. And so the only option I really had was get extremely good grades so I could get a scholarship to get out. And that was kind of my plan around ninth grade. I realized like, that was the only way I didn't turn into.

[00:09:35] Adam: A townie.

[00:09:36] Cory: Yeah, a townie. And so it was just like, that became like my hobby. My hobby was like being good at school. Like I didn't, I didn't consider myself a nerd. I didn't want to be a nerd. I was like, this is the work I have to put in to be able to see that upward mobility.

[00:09:49] Adam: Yeah. Wow. Wow. So, and you got out and then…

[00:09:53] Cory: Didn't go far, but got out. I got to Tampa, but that was like a dude, when I moved to Tampa, I'm like, Oh my God, this is like New York city. Like I'd never been anywhere before. I didn't know shit. Like I get to Tampa. I'm like, I go back to Tampa now and I'm like, Oh, this is, It's like, it's just, it's like a little bit bigger of a town.

[00:10:08] Adam: Yeah, yeah. And to go from like, you know, that to being an engineer and a founder, CEO of a company, pretty, pretty impressive journey.

[00:10:16] Cory: Yeah, there's a lot of luck and a lot of falling backwards into it.

[00:10:19] Adam: Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, it happens. So now you live in Southern California. You have a family. That's why you're on the show.

[00:10:26] Cory: I do.

[00:10:27] Adam: So you have a partner, your wife I believe it's named Allison and a couple of kids. Tell me about your family.

[00:10:32] Cory: Yeah. So I've got two kids Huxley and Isla slash coconut. She's got two names. Yeah, my wife and I have been together now for, oh, geez. I think we just had our. 11th anniversary, nine years married. And so this will be our 10 years, but it was funny. Like we just missed our 10 year together. Like we, neither of us realized it or probably realistically I missed it.

She knew. And she was like, let's see how long it takes him to figure it out. But yeah, so I got two kids. You know, it's funny. Like I never wanted kids. It was never like on my agenda whatsoever. Allison was obviously into the idea.

One of us, one of us had to be and so I was very hesitant and I was very nervous about having our first one. And like the day he was born, I was like, Oh, like this is a different me and this is going to be fun. So absolutely love the dude and dudette They're probably. I say my son's probably one of my best friends now.

Like we're homies. Like I treat him as a kid, but I also kind of treat him as an equal. Yeah, they're awesomem people

[00:11:28] Adam: Yeah. And there are five and two, your son's five, your daughter's two, right?

[00:11:31] Cory: Sons, five daughters, two in one month. It's January 3rd, January 13th.

[00:11:37] Adam: Oh, awesome.

[00:11:38] Cory: I also nailed, this is interesting. My grandma, I kid you not. She guessed the gender. I don't, sorry. Guess the sex. of every single one of her correctly before they were born. This is like an amazing feat.

I don't know if this lady has just got like banger Vegas odds, or if she had some weird, weird Irish magic.

[00:11:57] Adam: Time for her to start buying lotto tickets or something. I don't know.

[00:12:00] Cory: But I guessed both of our kids actual birthdates before they were born which was pretty, and both times I did it, my wife's like, dude, no, that's not the that date does not work.

And I'm like, that's the date it's going to happen. So my son’s is August, 5th. He was supposed to be due. I think July 31st, I was like, he's going to be born on August 5th. Cause that's the dog's birthday. And lo and behold, born on August 5th, I called him like, he's gonna be late born on the dog's birthday. And then my daughter's birthday was going to be I think it was estimated to be maybe on my birthday, which is January 8th, it was pretty close.

And I was like, nah, she's a Friday the 13th baby for sure. And lo and behold, Friday the 13th.

[00:12:36] Adam: Wow. How did she get the nickname coconut?

[00:12:40] Cory: Yeah. So, you know, those like apps that like track, like how big the baby is. Right. And so, it's kind of funny. Like, so what first happened was , when my wife told our son she showed him the app and she's like, Hey, I have to try to explain what's going on, babies in here, and it was the size of a coconut already, I guess, or size.

Like we wait, we waited a while. I mean, we're old, she's 39 when having the kids. So you never know. Right. So we didn't want to like tell him too early. And so, uh, told him and he just started referring to her as coconut. Which is like fine and dandy. My wife's birth stories are both pretty wild. And so, when Coconut was being born it was really funny.

My wife did not want an epidural for the first kid which I was like, that's insane. But like, you do you, like, this is your story. Like, we did all the prep for it, all like the, all the classes and everything. She ended up getting one, but then the second kid, she's like, yo, I'm getting an epidural.

Like I ain't no way in hell.

[00:13:34] Adam: I've done this once. I know how it goes. I've delayed, right away. Give me the drugs.

[00:13:39] Cory: The baby came so quick. It was not an option.

[00:13:42] Adam: Yeah.

[00:13:43] Cory: And so we're getting into the emergency room, like from the car, like I'm running red lights, like it's a show on TV. We get to the hospital, get her in a wheelchair. I'm like, this thing is like on its way. This is insane. Like her contractions are like two minutes apart or something like that.

Like real close. I don't know if any of you dads are like too. I sat through a lot of whatever the new Lamaze classes are. I got all this stuff like burned into my mind. I'm like, we got to get her up there soon. She's like, like she's every person she screamed like past. She's like screaming at like, she knows like she doesn't have much time either.

From like the way this went the first time. We get upstairs, the doctor comes in. She's like, I need an epidural. The doctor's like, well, the anesthesia or whatever person's in the next room. They'll be here in a moment. And she's just like, closes her eyes. And he looks at me and he's like. He looks down and he looks back up at me and he's like, no way, dude.

Like, he just kind of says it like on his lips. Like, he doesn't say dude, but he's just like, not a chance. I look down and it's like a fuzzy coconut, like her head. My son came out just bald. He was bald for like a year. She comes out with just like cropped, brown hair. And I'm looking down and I'm just like, it literally looks like one of those fuzzy brown coconuts coming out.

And I was just like, Oh my God, a coconut. And like, that's how. So it's just like my wife's like what and I'm a doctor's like it's yeah, 

Adam: The baby's here.

Cory: There's no epidural Like the head is was like to here like it's not quite crowning but like enough's out And so I think it was from the time in the door to coconut popping out It was like 12 minutes and so it was absolutely why but she comes out and it's just it's like perfectly cropped hair and we're like, oh my gosh, like this is funny so she just became coconut.

[00:15:18] Adam: I love that. That's a great story. That's a great story I mean she's gonna have that name for her whole life.

[00:15:23] Cory: Well, most people call it grandparents call her by her name. They're like, you guys got to stop calling her coconut. I'm like, yo, we like, I almost put that on the birth certificate. Like it took, some convincing for me. I had that thing in my hands. I was like, I coconut.

[00:15:34] Adam: So tell me about what Allison does for work. She also works.

[00:15:38] Cory: Yeah. Yeah. So speech and language therapist. She works for one of the school systems here with young kids. So mostly I think kindergarten, TK.

[00:15:46] Adam: Very cool. I have met that person at our school. So I know that job. You went through Y.C. With at least by my calculation, you had one kid. Your other one was maybe about to be born on the way, close, born? Yeah.

[00:16:04] Cory: I think we were thinking about it. Yeah. It's a 2000, 2002 winter, 2002 is when we were in. So she'll be two years now. So it's about a year before, before, coconuts born. So yeah, about right around the time I graduated YC, my wife's like, why don't we do this again?

[00:16:19] Adam: So I wanted to ask, cause you went through YC with one young kid and you've got two working parents, one young kid, YC, which is not for the faint of heart. That's a lot of pressure. Right? There's a lot of commitments when you're in Y. C. And so I'm curious. Was that a conversation that the two of you had about you going and starting a company?

Like, what does that mean for your family when you've got a really young kid? You're both working. This is an intense thing. Like, how does that come to pass?

[00:16:52] Cory: So we definitely had a conversation about it and, you know, I posted something like, I think like two or three years ago on LinkedIn that everybody liked, but it was pretty honest. It was like, you know, your family is your number one investors when you make a startup. Like, you know, they're not giving you money, they're not doing work, but they're giving away time with you and you're giving away time with them.

Right. And like, I think that's how you have to think about it. Like, you know, just stories here of people like starting a business and tearing their relationship apart. Like, you got to talk about what you're about to do. I think they got to understand the impact of it. And, you know, wife works for the school system.

Like most of our revenue was coming from, you know, my job working in the consulting space, which is pretty lucrative at the time. So it's like, okay, we're looking at a 60 percent cut to what we have, right? So like, how's that going to work out? Like, how's that affect like our retirement? Cause I had to like, take a bunch of that and just light that pile on fire.

Right. So, you know, when we were doing this it was the end of December 2021, I believe it was crazy. Like I said earlier, like most of, I feel like most of my success, I've just kind of. I mean, I work hard. I definitely bust my ass, but like, I feel like there's like serendipitous moments that I'm just like, I feel like I'm in a simulation.

I don't know how this happened to me. And so it was like December 2021. I'd quit my job about six months earlier. You know, going from making an absolute pile of cash to nothing. It's literally zero, right? And so it's December, like, we're doing Christmas, you know, with a kid. You know, paying for presents, like, paying for each other's presents.

Like, we're like skimping on, like, we're getting each other, trying to make sure, you know, our kid's not having a sad Christmas. And I had this conversation with my wife, I'm like, I'm taking out about three more months from my retirement. And I'm taking this like out of my own, like IRA thingamajig.

So like every time I take money out, like I'm getting taxed by the government for pulling it out. Right. And I'm like, I'm going to take out about three more months of our bills from my retirement, I was like, but, you know, if in three months, like, it doesn't look like this is going well, tell me and I'll stop. And it was just like, like that was it. Like she had the emergency break if she was ready to pull it. And so this is December, like right around Christmas, we've been working on this thing for like six to nine months or so, not a single sale yet. And in the span of a week, like we applied for YC late.

We applied after the deadline in a span of a week. We got our first investor, came in and gave us 200K. We made our first sale for an annual contract, 30K. And the day after those two things happen, like bing, bang, boom, YC response

[00:19:29] Adam: Mmm.

[00:19:30] Cory: 10 days before we're supposed to start. And they're like, we have one slot open.

[00:19:34] Adam: Wow. it was just like if they would have emailed me two days before, I don't think we would have gotten in, but between like, closing our first annual sale and getting this investment. It was just like, we had now like numbers, not just like an idea. Right. And so like that happened, we skyrocketed through YC.

[00:19:53] Cory: But it was a ton of time. Right. So like, she always kind of had the emergency break if she needed it, but I think she started to see the success there. Like she's seen the lulls.

[00:20:01] Adam: Yeah.

[00:20:02] Cory: And like, she is updated on our runway. Frequently, like, so like she knows where we're at. She knows how much longer the business has, you know, probably before our VCs do.

And so I think all that stuff's important. Right. And besides that, like, you just gotta put the work in and where I usually pull it from is time, like time sleeping. Right. So I'm not working out as much as I used to, which sucks. And so I just got to figure out like, how can I get the most like bang for my buck time wise. So, you know, one of the things I do, like I don't work out as much, but I walk, like eight miles a day. Like that's how I stay fit. How do I find the time to walk eight miles a day? Well, most of my deep work I do in my head. I like to dictate, I don't like to type, so I'll just go on long walks and I'll just kind of talk to myself and have my phone record my thoughts instead of me trying to sit and think through stuff.

I take every single call on a regular ass phone. When I can, if people don't need to see my face and I go for a walk. So it's just like, you know, that's where I'm finding my exercise. That's where I'm finding like my me time, my downtime, I'm still getting work done. Then, you know, six to eight and six to eight, like those are times where kids are going on.

And then, you know, eight, me and my wife sit down, spend an hour or two together before bed and, you know, I try to get eight hours of sleep every night, but the reality is like, usually it's six, I'll go back out to my office and work for an hour or two. And then the other real key place. I think like in our relationship and where time comes from, especially with sleep is you know, we have this thing that we've always done, which is every weekday.

It's one of our days like for us, right? So, every Saturday morning. I get to sleep in as long as I want, Sunday morning, my wife gets to sleep in as long as she wants. Right. So you know, you can't bank sleep, but I sure as hell try to make up for it on Friday night.

Like I'll be in bed at 11 and I'm like, I'm getting up tomorrow at like 10 AM. And I'll wake up and sometimes I'll just lay there. And I hear the kids like having a blast in the living room and I'm like, they're having fun. They're enjoying time with her. They'll enjoy time with me tomorrow.

Like, I'm just going to sit here and have a little me time.

[00:21:56] Adam: Yeah. Yeah. That's good. And is that something like how you've kind of figured out how you prioritize your time with, you know, Allison and your kids and yourself, like, is that something that you sort of negotiated with her or sat down and had a conversation about like, you have to revisit that regularly?

How have you kind of, I don't know, have you systematized this?

[00:22:18] Cory: We haven't as much as we'd like to. We actually said recently, we've reached that phase where we're going to consider like a family calendar. Right. Cause like, she likes to do Pilates. She likes to cycle still. Right. She doesn't have as much shit going on as me.

So like she has that time, but then it's a matter of like making sure that I have the time to make sure there's like some sort of kid coverage. Right. And so the idea for the sleeping in thing kind of came in is like, we were both just waking up the kid, my daughter wakes up at six. My son woke up at six for the longest time.

Now he sleeps in to seven 30, which is pretty nice. But for the longest time, we were both getting up on Saturday and Sunday is when the baby starts crying. And it's like, we're both just kind of exhausted and tired. It's just like a person can easily take care of two to three kids. Right. And like, it's not any more duress. I mean, it's, I mean, they're both very small. It is. But like when, once your kids are five, it's like, he wants to help too. Right. So it's just a matter of like, Hey, like what's good for the house. What's good for the family. Like, how can you help? Like, how can you be a cool older brother? Like your sister's upset.

Like I need to make breakfast. Can you entertain her for a bit? Right. We're also very, you know, anti technology so like we don't just flip on the TV and be like, man, that was easy. So it was like, if we're both just stressed out Saturday and Sunday mornings, that sucks. Like we need a way for us to be able to recharge.

And like, is there like incremental negative stress from having two kids one morning by yourself? Like if there is, I think it's rehabbed by having a complete morning to yourself.

[00:23:38] Adam: Yeah. So you just came off of a couple of the biggest conferences of the year for MassDriver, right? I think you were at Coopicon, is that one of them? Am I remembering this correctly?

[00:23:48] Cory: Yeah. KubeCon about, yeah. It's funny. It's just like, November's crazy. It's like KubeCon, Thanksgiving, and then re: Invent, which is like by far the biggest that we go to.

[00:23:59] Adam: So you have to be on the road for that, right? Like it's not like they're in the dad cave. They're not in the dad shop. So like you as the founder CEO, like small company, you got to be there. Like, it's just there's no way around it.

How do you handle that with the family? How do you stay connected to the family when you're on the road? Are there any sort of rituals or ways that you know, you FaceTime the kids. Like what do you do?

[00:24:22] Cory: Yeah. Yeah. It's so much easier when like you're in approximately the same time zone. We did KubeCon France earlier last year. That one was rough. But when I'm in like a U S time zone, it's easy I know when they're up, I know what they're doing. Like we have a pretty strict schedule, like on weekdays.

Right. My travel is always as tight around the trip as possible. So like, even when I went to France, I was like, I don't have time to stick around for a weekend and have a blast. It was like, conference was over Friday morning. I was home. I think I got home Friday night before the kids were in bed or right as they were going to bed.

So, it's like every morning I know that my son's up at 6:30, they're eating breakfast around like 6:45. So I FaceTime, we have a lazy Susan on our table. The two kids are there. So my wife will put the phone down like on the lazy Susan and she'll just kind of rock it back and forth, like, you know, as we're talking to him I get like 15 minutes, maybe which is, I mean, it's mostly just them being like, just screaming nonsense at you.

Like, it's not a conversation. They're just like, Oh, I know that guy. Like, and then I try to do the same right before bed. So, try to catch them on either end, but the evening one's always hard. It's like hit and miss. And my wife also knows that like. Hey, you're going to Vegas for re: Invent. That isn't fun for me.

Like I'm not a Vegas guy. Like she's like, that is you're in purgatory for five days. Like this trip, funny enough, my sister went with me. Not, yeah, complicated family. We'll just call her my sister. There's some air quotes on that. It's my niece who's about the same age as me. So she went with us to help at the booth and you know, it was like one night she's like, we got to go out.

And I'm like, okay, let's go out. And it's like, I think we're out to like midnight, had a couple of drinks and I'm like, Oh dude, big night. I woke up the next morning. And I was like, Oh God, the idea of getting on a FaceTime with my kids in like 45 minutes sucks. And so I text my wife, I'm like, Chelsea made me have Disarrono on the rocks last night.

Like, there's no way I'm going to be able to be like a coherent human being on a call. And she's like, dude, don't worry about it. Like,

[00:26:19] Adam: Oh man. Yeah. Then, you know, those conferences are not. When you're maybe a younger person, they're really fun. As you get older and you have other responsibilities and you need your sleep and stuff, like it's not fun to be inside a convention center for like 14 hours a day or whatever.

[00:26:35] Cory: Yeah, it was funny. A lot of VCs come and hunt you down. Like when you're, you know, a CEO or a founder at re:Invent And this VC I was talking to is like, what are your big goals for the year? I was like, my number one goal is to make enough money to hire a social media manager so I never have to log into Twitter again.

And I was like, my number two goal is to get big enough where I don't have to come here next year.

[00:26:55] Adam: Yeah,

[00:26:56] Cory: And he's like, what about revenue goals? I'm like, dude, I'm a dad. These are my goals, man. If these goals don't make sense to you, you're going to fucking hate investing in this business. Like. I'm building a business here.

I'm not building some like VC, like cheerleader thing. You can just throw money at, like, I'm trying to build something stable and something that works for parents. Like my other co-founder's three kids. Right. And my other co-founder wants to have some someday. Right. So it's like, if we're going to be here for 10 years, like we have to build something that works for, you know, potentially three working dads.

Right. So,

[00:27:25] Adam: Totally. So you mentioned you never saw yourself as sort of having kids and being a dad and then that kind of all changed when you met your son and probably continues to change, right, as you have multiple kids. What's like the most surprising thing that you've discovered as a dad? Maybe you weren't expecting.

[00:27:44] Cory: This is gonna sound so bad that I actually like them. Like, I think they're, I think they're hilarious. I like talking to them. Like, not just like surface level, like how was school today? It's like, I want to know, like, I'm intrigued by what happens in their little brains and what is pretty wild to me is like, both raised by a speech therapist. So, you know, my son currently, I mean, he's bilingual. He goes to a bilingual school. But when he was two, he was testing as a five year old like language wise. My daughter's almost two, but like she can put together like four or five word sentences, right?

So like they have an amazing command of English for how small they are. And what was very wild is like, you know, my son, when he was still in a crib, so less than two, maybe, two and a half, he would wake up and he would tell you his dreams. And this was just like, to me, I was like, this is fascinating.

Right. Cause like they have a full size brain in there with electricity, just pumping through it. And they don't have the way to talk to you. Most of them don't. Right. And so like having this ability to like, hear what goes on inside their heads when they can, right. This is a part of the human experience that science does not understand.

You can't get thoughts out of a child unless they can somehow talk at this early age and both of these kids can just have an amazing command of English. And so like, to be able to hear them, like say what's going on in their head or like what they think about the world is absolutely fascinating to me.

I feel like that's a little peak of humanity that very few people will ever get unless like you're fortunate enough to have kids that have like an extremely strong command of language.

[00:29:22] Adam: Yeah. One of the things you told me in our prep for the show is that kids brains are bigger than you think, is this kind of what you mean?

[00:29:30] Cory: Yeah. I mean, like, it's so easy to sit down and like tell them how you want them to play or whatever, but like being able to like, lean into like their thoughts and the things that they think and try to have fun with it, I think is important, especially when they get so many knows you can't do this, like whether you're saying no, or you're saying no through like the redirected negativity or whatever the, you know, the thing you're supposed to do nowadays is like they're being told, no, like whether you're saying no or not.

Right. And so like, they have ideas, right. And that's a lot of their frustration. You think about kids, like these bags of meat. Generally have zero context in the world and they aren't freaking out 24 seven, right? Imagine you're just sitting on your couch and somebody walks by and they go, hey, get in the car.

You'd be like, why? Right? Like they're just like, okay. And they just like follow you, right? Like, but there's still stuff going on in there, right? And it's just fun and fascinating to me. And like, to be able to like hear that stuff coming out of their mouths and like their ideas, which are sometimes absolutely insane.

Like my son the other day was like, what if we dismantled my entire school, if we just tore the whole thing down and we use the materials to build a ginormous crane. And I'm like, what if like, Oh, that's bonkers. Like, I don't, okay. Like, but then other times he's like, look, he's like, we got like a cozy couch and he's like, Can we make a two story fort out of this?

You guys know the cozy couch, like the thing you can kind of build stuff with? And I'm looking at it, I'm like not with a cozy couch. Like we don't have enough materials. I was like, if we had, I was like, we could, I mean, gravity's gravity. So like, we're gonna have to fight that. We'll figure that one out.

But like, if we had other materials, we could do it. And he's like, okay. And then he like goes in his room and he comes back out and he comes out with stuff that we can make a two story fort with in the middle of the living room. It's like, okay. So he's like, he brings it. We have this like big connects thing that lets you build like sheet forts and stuff like that.

He's like, okay. So he's like. So we do the cozy couch on the bottom where you're gonna need something to hold it up. It's like, okay. He understands that the cozy couch itself does not have enough to hold his weight, right? Like he knows that he's like, so we need something to hold it up. Like, what are we going to use?

Like, I mean, it can't be a two story fort if you can't get inside of it. So we can't put like the table underneath it. It's like, Oh, what if we put like the stools underneath it? Like they have tall sides. Lo and behold, they're just about right. Okay, great. Now we've got, okay, now put the stick fort on top.

We got a two story fort. How do we get in this thing? Oh shit. Ah. You have one of those step ladders in the garage. We can bring that in, Coconut’s, forts, downstairs, my forts upstairs. I'm like, dude, you weigh a lot. Like if this collapses, what's going to, Oh, that'll kill Coconut. Okay. Well, maybe the top part shouldn't be yours.

Right. And so like, they can think through this stuff, but I feel like it's so easy as a parent to be like, no. Right. And like. There's creativity happening inside of those heads, right? And like, it might be inconvenient to you to go and try to figure out how to build a two story fort with them, but like, that's the experience.

Like, that's the fun, right?

[00:32:22] Adam: I like what you were saying. You sort of like, had this Socratic method approach, which is like, well, okay, well, this is going to happen. So how are we going to do that? And then your son's kind of like, Oh, I know we can do the thing, you know, you're kind of like leading him through it, you know, by asking him a bunch of questions.

[00:32:42] Cory: And what's fun about it is sometimes they tell themselves no, right? Like, they realize, like, you're playing a little dumb. Like I could figure out, dude, I'm an engineer. I could figure this stuff out. I, my, my bachelor's was in a architecture before I changed. I know exactly what's going on, but the structural integrity of this cozy couch brother, but like by playing dumb and like making them think through it.

Right. You're seeing like what they can do. Right. But they'll also like reach points where they're like, Oh, like he doesn't know how to do it and I can't figure it out. And now I'm not telling you, no, you're making the decision that like, this isn't plausible. Right. And I think that's also important.

Like, it's not me just telling, you know, and I sound like a bummer or I sound like a, you know, strict it's like, Oh, this isn't feasible

[00:33:21] Adam: Yeah.

[00:33:21] Cory: What's wild is a five year old can eventually get to the point where they're like, Oh, this isn't feasible. We can't do this. They don't get to that point very often.

[00:33:29] Adam: Yeah. So you told me about this concept of over the top play What does that mean to you?

[00:33:34] Cory: Just finding that crazy shit that they come up with and like trying to lean into it, as long as you're keeping everybody safe. Right. So it's like, dude, if you want to build a two story port and we can figure out how to do it, we're going to do it. Right. And so it's just like finding those moments where it's like, okay, you got a bonkers idea, like, let's see what we can do with it.

So like he has like one of those driving trucks. And so like he, he wanted one, he's one of his friends had one. And so it was like, okay, so it starts out with, let's buy the truck. So we got him the truck for, I think Christmas last year. And now it's like, you know, this thing he's excited about, he wants to drive it all the time.

And , of course, we like, we got him the most ridiculous one we could find. So it's like, it's got a dump truck thing on the back of it. And so like, he's just like, okay, like. How do I build a caravan? Like we got all this stuff that we always want to take around with us. Like, how do I pull other things in this?

And it's like, Oh yeah, let's go outside. Let's figure it out. Like, what do you got? Like, let's build these crazy things that are in your head because like, you're thinking about them. Right. And so it's just like leaning into this play that like normally you'd be like, ah, it's like, can we play Legos?

Like, do you want to do a puzzle? It's like, no, they can do puzzles all day long at school. Like let's do the fun shit that they actually think about. Like, let's do something that like, Oh, there's not a lot of times that I sit back and I think, Oh, you know what? I remember that time that mom sat down and did that Bert and Ernie puzzle with me.

But I'll tell you what, he's going to remember that time we built the two story fort. He's going to remember that time we built the caravan and damn near almost injured some kids, because I'll tell you what, like this thing was shoddy.  But like, that's the fun. It's like, yeah, you got to figure out like what kind of crazy stuff you could do with them that's still safe.

Like, it makes sense. But like, just like lean into them, see, like, see what it's got. They're like, you're going to have memories that like, I don't know. Does anybody listening? It's like, do you remember any, or were you like, oh my gosh, that they, we just, the day we made that fire engine puzzle.

Like, it's just, it's so like mundane in the grand scope of things, right? You remember, you know, things they say that's cute, or you might remember that like photo you took with them, but like, genuine experiences where you sit down and like do something together. Like, I feel like the best ones, like the most memorable ones come from the crazy ideas that they have, not you saying like, Hey, what if we paint a snowman picture together and we do a little finger paint?

Like, yeah, I might remember it. Cause I see it like a couple of years later, but like, Oh man, that fun stuff. Just like it burns in, so that's what I'll be like clinging to when I have dementia. I'll be like Huxley do you still live in that two story cozy couch? And he'll be like you remember that you crazy old fool.

[00:35:54] Adam: That's amazing. Also good impression of yourself as an old dementia patient. If you could. Rewind the clock to right before you had your first kid, you know, you're skeptical dad, you weren't the most gung ho thinking like I've been put on this earth to be a dad.

Like that was not your thought process, and you bump into yourself. From five years ago before your son's born, what would you tell that younger version of you? What advice would you have for younger Cory?

[00:36:25] Cory: Whoo, I'd probably say it's so time travel is always weird to me. Let's start with that like…

[00:36:34] Adam: Let's assume you can meet younger Cory and it doesn't rip the space time continuum or whatever. Let's suspend the laws of physics for a moment here.

[00:36:42] Cory: I mean, I think honestly, like I would have a hard time doing it because the moment I had my son, like it is fused in my mind. It's like that exact moment. As soon as I had the chance to hold him I remember the entire grizzly details of him coming out, but like the moment that I held him is just crystal clear in my head still.

And I wouldn't want to rob that from myself, but I think I would just simply say like, this is going to be a lot more enjoyable than you think. Like you've had a vast amount of fun in your life. I had an, an amazing twenties and thirties. You know, I was actually married previously, I got married very, very young.

I think it was 21 when I got married the first time, divorced very young. And so I was just unabashedly single for a very long time and a bit of a globe trotter. So I was remote. I've been remote for 15 years. I lived out of a suitcase for two years, just kind of bouncing around the globe. So it's like, I've had all these amazing experiences.

I think that was the thing I was afraid of the most is like, once this happens, like that is gone for good. Right. Like, and I had no idea in my mind about like leaving my wife or anything, but I've been through a divorce before. It's like, you never know what's going to happen. And you know, I, you know, I said earlier, my parents, like, I actually didn't meet my real dad until I was 38.

My stepdad was around from the time I was born. Right. So I knew my real dad's a piece of shit. Right. And so it's just like, I don't want to be that piece of shit. Like once this happens, like I've got to be the best dad I can possibly be. And so like a lot of that anxiety is just like pumping through my head as we're thinking about this.

This is part of the reason I don't want to have a kid. Cause I'm like, fuck, like, I don't want to be like that guy. And I think I probably would have just said like, You're not, dude. Like, you're golden. Like, you're gonna have a blast. They're gonna love you. It's gonna be super fun. And I probably would have just left it at that just to, like, relieve my anxiety a bit.

But yeah.

[00:38:32] Adam: And in five years, you're gonna build a two story fort. You won't even know what I'm talking about.

[00:38:36] Cory: Yeah. Two story fort. Well, now he wants to do it in the tree. And I'm like, nah, that's actually not happening. And people might be like, what? What a tree fort? But like, it's like, I love this tree. Like, we're not damaging this tree. This thing is amazing. He's just like, We've got a 65 foot tall olive tree that's triple trunked.

So it's split, it's like 180 years old. He's like, this is the perfect tree for a fort. And I'm like, maybe the next family lives in this house, but we are not bastardizing this beauty. Like, sorry, bud, you can build one underneath it. You can, I'll buy you a tough shed. I don't care.

Nothing's going in this tree.

[00:39:08] Adam: Do you remember Five, six years ago, you found out you're going to be a dad. Do you remember getting any advice from people that you would tell younger Cory, like, Hey, people are going to tell you this, just ignore it. Don't listen to them.

[00:39:26] Cory: Yea. All of it. Dude, seriously, if you have advice, if you're a parent or not a parent, if you're not a parent, don't give a parent any fucking advice. Whatever you're gonna tell them is bullshit. And if you're a parent, like, give them advice that makes them feel good. Like the amount of advice and comments you get, like the amount of negative, it's funny.

It's like, ah, you sound like maybe cuss a lot. Dude I cuss out of fun? I'm always having a blast. The amount of negativity you get from people when you tell them you're having a kid. It's just like, dude, can you all just shut the fuck up for a second? It's just like, Hey, we're pregnant. It's like, Oh, say goodbye to your social life.

It's like. Like, could you shut, dude, be like, congratulations. Like, is it a boy? Is it, dude, be mundane. Ask me a boring question about it. Like, do anything besides tell me how my life's going to suck. Oh, say goodbye to sleep. It's like, yeah, I know. I mean, like. I get what's going to happen, but like, like, there's so much of that.

Like, as soon as you tell people that you're going to have a kid, it's just like, that's one thing that we have been adamant about not doing when people tell us they're having kids. It's just like, don't say that stuff. Like it's going to happen. Right. Like I might say something like, look, man, usually this is what I tell people like, you're going to have so many people tell you that you're not going to get to sleep and your goal is to figure out how to get that rest for you and your partner, like it's going to happen.

You'll figure it out. What you need to focus on is how absolute much fun you're going to have with this person, right? Like, and that's like, that's it. Like, that's the only advice you're going to be able to give somebody that's going to be honest and true is like, you're going to have so much fun with these people.

Besides that, you know fuck all about what's going to happen to this person's life in the future. And if it's something negative, like keep it to yourself, man, no one cares. Like, last thing people need are a bummer when they're trying to celebrate something joyful. Like.

[00:41:11] Adam: Yeah, totally. What is your favorite book to read to your kids?

[00:41:15] Cory: Oh Little Blue Truck. Hands down. I love Little Blue

Truck. 

Adam:The whole series

Cory: The whole series. I think Little Blue Truck is great. I have a fun time. I like reading, I mean, there's a lot of books I like to read. Little Blue Truck's good. I like the Ada Twist series. Yeah Iggy Peck is great.

But Little Blue Truck is fun because I mean, it's just fun. It's always quirky. But I feel like whoever draws the book, has a particular sense of humor. Like, the springtime one, where all the animals are having babies. If you read it, the frog's a pimp.

The frog has like eight girlfriends. Like, I don't know if you catch this, it's just like, what is going on in this book? Every book where the animal's facing away from the page, they do extremely detailed buttholes on all the animals. And like, it is a hilarious book for me to read because it's like, it's so simple, it's one of those books like, my son knows the words, like, he can read it to, he can read it to our sister.

Like he has enough of it memorized that he can like sit down and, you know, pseudo read it. But like, like the pictures are cute. It's a fun book, but there's just so much like Easter eggs to it as an adult where he's like, Oh, that's kind of funny. And now my son's like, is that the chicken's butthole?

And I'm like, that is the chicken’s. I don't know why they felt the need to draw it, but I mean, they, they did pucker and all. It's like right there. And then it's like, you start flipping through the book. He's like, literally every single animal that's not facing the book has an ornate butthole. Like, I don't know why, but it's and I've tweeted at the author.

I'm like, what is up? Like, why do you do this? And they haven't responded to me. I tried to send them a DM, but they don't accept DM from strangers. Maybe that makes sense, but I think Little Blue Truck is great, Ada Twist series is great for a person that loves tacos, Dragons Love Tacos is torturous, and then there's this other book it's called, I think it's called The Book With No Words.

[00:42:59] Adam: Yeah!

[00:43:00] Cory: Yeah, that's a fun one that's a fun one, see, I think those are, I think those are it. Pete The Cat is also fun just because I love Pete, man. There's a lot of good ones. Pete The Cat's good. Cause I like singing the songs. I'm a musician. I don't get to sing very often, so I'll take it where I can.

And then the other one I like to do is, Oh, geez. Gosh, I have a lot of Chris, his name, Chris Ferrie. I think he does all the science books. So it'll be like physics for babies. Like those are all fun. And then I think the final one is. The like Toot, Toot beep, beep series. There's like bang, bang.

It's like the one about the tools and it's all the sounds of tools make them. That's the same book about choo choo trains and trains, regular trains, gross adults, and then there's one about cars. And I liked those cause I literally beat box them to the kids and they're just like amazed because there's so much rhyming.

There's so much alliteration in them. It's fun. So yeah, I guess I just said all of them.

[00:43:56] Adam: I can feel the enthusiasm though, and plus you reminded me of a bunch of books that I haven't, I mean, my kids are a bit older now, so some of these we're obviously not reading to them anymore, but these are great. I'm a parents listening to this show are gonna now have like a, library that they

[00:44:09] Cory: Oh, if you do to to be what you got to do is you got to do it in the, I mean, people are people probably aren't as enthused about this one anymore. This is such like a white guy, early 2000s song to pick, but you got to do it to the tone of Ignition by R. Kelly. I get that y'all hate him. I get that y'all hate him, but

[00:44:29] Adam: He was I believe he was cancelled right?

[00:44:31] Cory: He was canceled, but you can do toot toot beep beep. I mean, it it doesn't change the fact that ignition is a slamming song. Like, right. Like, but he sucks as a person, but like the producer, whoever wrote the lyrics, fun song to do toot toot beep beep to the tone of.

[00:44:46] Adam: Good to know I learned a lot of things on this pod today,

[00:44:49] Cory: He was so canceled. He was removed from my mind, but the lyrics are still in here.

[00:44:52] Adam: Yeah, that's amazing. I wanted to ask you a little bit about connecting parenthood to being a company leader. So I'm really curious how has becoming a dad changed you as a CEO, founder, leader of a company or has it?

[00:45:16] Cory: I don't know if it has. I don't know if it has, honestly. I mean, I think that, like, one thing that's kind of imbued in me, like work wise and dad wise is like putting in work and doing good work, like not settling for adequate, like looking for exceptional. And like, that's how I try to run the business.

And that's just kind of like the work ethic of my stepdad. And the work that I knew I had to do to not be a townie, right. It's just kind of stuck in me. And so like, that is kind of like the root of my existence. So I'd say like that drives more of like how I'm a dad and how I run a business.

And yeah, I don't know that it has. Maybe, maybe it has, I don't know. I'd have to ask my co-founders.

[00:45:54] Adam: We'll check in on that again in a few more years maybe. You know, one of the things that is really important when you are a parent, which everyone I would say agrees with, is that partnership with your spouse. Super important. And being on the same page, super important, but that can be hard.

And so I'm curious in the O'Daniel household, what's an area that you and Alison don't agree on when it comes to parenting?

[00:46:27] Cory: Ooh.

Okay. We're on the same page technology wise. I tend to cuss a lot more, so we're not on the same page there. She's like, yo, kick it down a notch. I'm like, I was raised by like sailors, man. Chill out.

[00:46:39] Adam: Well, given this podcast, I am shocked that…

[00:46:42] Cory: I know, sorry man, you're gonna be bleeping up a storm.

[00:46:43] Adam: No, it's a it's an explicit lyric show. We're good. We allow it.

Cory: Oh is it? Oh, awesome. I always feel bad when they're like, Oh, our editor's gonna have to get all that. I'm like, Oh, you should've told me that at the top.

[00:46:52] Adam: No, do not care. Who knows what it does to the distribution of the show.

You gotta let your freak flag fly on the Startup Dad.

[00:46:58] Cory: I think the thing that we disagree about the most is you know, my wife her parents were like founders of California Waldorf. They're very Waldorfian, I don't know if that's an actual word. And I am like a man of science. And so when we go to the doctor about something and the doctor is like, you should do this.

I'm like, we should do that. And she's like, do you think we should second guess him and look into it a bit ourselves and maybe talk to a second doctor? I'm like. No, we should just do what they said. Like, I was like, unless I'm like, unless it's like, ah, like we should remove the arm. And it's like, whoa, chill out a second.

But it's just like, yeah, well, yeah. And what do you think about this? Like, right now, like my daughter's got like a toe fungus and the doctor's like, you should do this. And I'm like, we should just. We should just do that. And my wife’s like, what if we looked for alternative medicines? And I'm like, I mean, like maybe it'll work.

I mean, I'm not a doctor. Like, I mean, there's plenty of shit that we can read on Facebook. I don't know if any of it's true. I'm like, I'm just going to go with what this lady is saying. But if you want to do something else, I absolutely support it. But if it doesn't work, I'm going to be like, what if we tried with this lady over here saying like, I think that's it is just like, I'm just like, she's like, what are you thinking?

I'm like, I think whatever the doctor said, and she's like, do you not care about this? I'm like, Oh, I do. That's why I'm just like, whatever the doctor says.

[00:48:10] Adam: You just trust the science.

[00:48:12] Cory: I didn't go to medical school and do a residency, like this person knows a hell of a lot more than me. Now, at the same time, I'm not afraid to be a dick to our doctor and be like, no dude, like, like, let's run it through one more time or like, let's look at it a little more in depth or like, we've been doing this for a while.

Like what else you got? But like, I'm not like, let's go by the library and pick up our own book and see what we can figure out. I'm like, I ain't got time for that. Like, if you want to go to medical school, like I support it, but like, I'm outsourcing that to the doctors.

[00:48:38] Adam: Would that be, if I were to ask your wife, would that be the thing that she would pick where the two of you don't agree? What would she say?

[00:48:46] Cory: Oh, I'd she'd say it's that, or the, how comfortable I am with giving them sweets. Like my sweet tooth is, I've got a crazy sweet tooth. Like tonight we're actually, my wife's going out with one of her friends to see a movie and my son and I are going to watch the Grinch movie.

And so we're making, so soon as the wife’s out, she knows I gave her the shopping list. She's like, This is what you guys are doing. And I'm like, hell yeah, we're doing it. You're out of the house. Like, this is what we're doing. So it's like, we're making Grinch hot cocoa. So it's hot cocoa, green whipped cream, red sprinkles around the top for the hat.

And then we're going to do eyes with some chocolate chips and a little dabs of white whipped cream. And then of course, we're going to stick a single nutty bar, little Debbie. Nutty Bar, Nutty Buddy, they changed the name at some point in time. Those little brick wafers of chocolate. Hands down the best dessert ever made on the planet.

Die on that hill. So we'll stick a single one of those in his hot cocoa. And then once he goes to bed, I will literally eat the entire box. I'm not joking. Like, I sit down. And I just crush these things. My, every time I go home, my mom buys a 24 pack of them and I finish them within two days. I love them.

I got a sweet tooth. I go to the dentist four times a year for a cleaning. My dentist is like, why are you always here? I'm like, got to keep this shit nice. I eat a lot of sugar. I ain't looking for cavities. And so she's just like, yo, you can't give these kids that much sugar. I'm like, like I had a little Debbie snack cake in my lunch every single day.

Elementary through high school. Cause I took my lunch in high school. Like, dude, they're going to be fine. Like their little bodies are resilient. He runs that stuff off. She's like, we got to give them like good stuff though. So like, they don't like turn into like sugar holics and it's like, nah, like I'm gonna, so like every once in a while, she'll be like, Where did you get that chocolate from?

And he'll be like, Dad gave it to me, told me not to tell. And it's like, dude, what the hell, dude?

[00:50:31] Adam: Narc.

[00:50:31] Cory: Narc,

[00:50:33] Adam: That's hilarious.

[00:50:35] Cory: That's the funny thing. It's like, he hasn't reached that age where he knows how to lie yet. He's like, Oh yes, dad told me not to tell you. Like he'll run in sometimes. He'll be like, dad told me not to tell you that he gave me chocolate.

And I was like, dude, you literally, like you could have just stayed out here. She never would have known. You're blowing us up.

[00:50:50] Adam: That's so funny. That's so funny. All right. Those are two really good ones. Those are two great ones. Okay. You mentioned you and your wife are very aligned on the screen time and the, you know, devices and things like that. So you've built an entire career in technology, right?

You're the founder of a technology company. Co founder of technology company. What's the relationship that you want your kids to have with technology as they get older and how do you talk to him about it?

Cause they probably see dad on a computer and you know, all that sort of stuff.

[00:51:21] Cory: They don't, so they see my wife on a computer from time to time, but honestly her work, she doesn't get to work outside of work very often. I keep my stuff in my office. They rarely come back to my office. Like when you look at my office, it's like, it's, I think it's probably impressive for a kid.

There's like guitars on the wall, like 10 monitors. It's like 40 mics, all the cameras and everything for like recording demos and whatnot. So there's like lots of baubles. And so I don't honestly like having them in here because like, I don't want him to become fascinated with all this stuff and think that.

That my job is like this wondrous amount of technology. There's a phrase that we use in our house all the time. It's, is it a tool or is it a toy? And so we talk about this, everything. So it's like tools are used for doing work. We pick them up when we have a job to do with them, toys are things that we can play with.

And so, you know, if I, for instance, leave my phone and one of the kids pick it up, I'll just be like, is that a tool or a toy? And they'll be like, it's a tool. And I'm like, do you have any work that you need to do with it right now? And they're like, no. And I'm like, then why are you holding it? They'll put it down.

Same thing with tools. Like my son, I'm comfortable letting him use tools. Now I don't give him like a power saw or anything like that, but like we build a lot together. And so like You know, I've actually let him use a circular saw. I'm guiding him. My hands are there too. I'm telling him what to do, what not to do.

But I'm saying, this is a tool. We do not pick it up unless we have a job to do. And we understand what that job is. And your cell phone is the same thing. And so they've gotten very like. This is a tool. It's not something I need. We don't watch a lot of TV. Like we do a movie night on Friday night.

That's about the only time they watch TV. But they're fascinated when they see like other kids. Like if we go to a restaurant and you see another kid on an iPad, they're like, why don't I have an iPad? Right. And so like, there's that peer pressure that's already there. And so, you know,

I'm sorry for anybody who's hearing this, like, hope this doesn't offend you.

And it's like, well, you're not on an iPad. Cause we want to connect with you. We want to spend dinner talking to you. Like, you know, like. You know, I want to talk to my wife, but we have date nights where it can be just us. Right. And those date nights are easy. If you're a parent and you're trying to figure them out, like find a family member to take your kids.

Grandparents, sister, brother, whatever, do the same for them. Like again, two kids going to four kids in your house for a night. It's not that big of a deal, especially if next week, like you have the whole night to yourself, but also like have your own date nights. Like we do this once a week where it's like, we'll feed them dinner.

We won't eat dinner with them. And then after they go to bed, like we'll order something that we want. We'll crack a bottle of wine, go outside and sit and bullshit. Right? And so like we are having dinner with you. You're not on an iPad because we want you present with us. Like we want that family unit.

We don't want you to shut up so we can talk to each other. Like you're here for a reason. And so I think the only time they have like, you know, unfettered access to like technology is if we're on an extremely long drive, like, so my wife's sister lives about an hour and a half away. So we'll give them like an iPad and put a movie on, but we're also very cautious about television.

Like a lot of TV shows like the Cocoa Melons, that annoying guy that has like the orange tie.

Adam: Caillou?

Cory: No Blippi.

[00:54:17] Adam: Oh, Blippi! Yes, oh

[00:54:19] Cory: Head heads up, Blippi. I'm not a guy that believes in violence, but if I ever see you, I'm just gonna punch you. That's a threat. Watch out, Blippi. I'm coming for you. But like that stuff's poison to their brains.

Like it's frenetic. Like if you watch one of these shows, watch one of these shows, put it on yourself. Don't have your kids around. Just watch a television show. A cocoa melon put on a stopwatch that like the lap timer on your phone. And every time the scene changes, hit that. And you'll see that the scene changes.

Like it's just frenetic. It's just pumping them with like every 15 seconds things are changing. And so when we let them watch TV, it'll be something like predated to now. Cause a lot of content today is around this, like just jar your face. And so it would be like slower content, older content. And then there are cartoons that we will let them watch.

Nowadays, they are less frenetic, right? The Ada Twists are not, they're a bit frenetic, but then there's things like Tumble Leaf. Tumble Leaf is a great one. It's slow paced. It's quiet. Like it's thoughtful. There's these long scenes that like capture their attention and hold their attention, not.

Just constantly shock it, right? Unfortunately, that show got cancelled because I think parents just give their kids too much bullshit and it's not fast enough for most kids. Another really good one is, Oh um, Puffin Rock's another good one. It's nice and slow. And then Daniel Tiger, which is like the replacement for Mr. Rogers, right, is also, it's nice and slow and it's non chaotic and what's crazy is like, We'll put that stuff on when like friends, kids are over that are used to like the cocoa melons of the world.

And it's like, they are not interested in it whatsoever. And my, like our kids will just sit and watch it. Cause like we've taught their brains, like this is what entertainment feels like to watch. And then, you know, we had a friend who came over my parents were always good about having amazing parties despite having kids.

And we've tried to have that as well. So like, we'll have a big old party on Friday night. We'll start at five. Everybody will bring their kids. We'll just have little sleepovers kind of all over the house. All the parents will go outside and just, you know party till midnight or two or whatever. And so we had some friends over recently and they were like, Oh, we'll put on like the Lego Batman movie or whatever.

And like, my son came out of the house and he's just like, I can't, like that is hurting to watch and like their kids just like zoned into it. And it's just like, and so I don't know, man, like keeping the technology away from, I think it's important. Like, we're teaching their brains, like what's acceptable in the world.

Right. Kids learn from experience. They learn from doing things. And when we give them a phone, we're saying like, Hey, like, you don't need to talk to other people. Like there's this thing, right? You don't need to hear what the family's talking about. There's this thing, right? Entertainment. You have a short attention span.

Like you need a fast dopamine hit. Like you're programming that brain for life. And I think that's one of the things extremely scary about where we are. Like, you know, I'm not a researcher. My wife works with kids, I kind of hear like bits from her, but like she talks about like the rates of autism.

Right. And like, there's some people like, Oh, it's the vaccinations. Ah, that's what's giving all the kids autism. She's like, I personally think there's one of two things, one, we've discovered that it's a spectrum, not a diagnosis. So like more people get caught up in it. But if you look at the slope of like the numbers going up, it's also right around the same time we started getting smartphones, right?

And so there's kids that are probably being diagnosed with autism that just have been taught to have a short attention span that have been taught to not make eye contact with their parents that have been taught to not talk because this thing is entertaining them. And it's just like, dude, like you don't get a second chance to teach them about how to interact in the world.

And it's going to be extremely hard for them when they reach kindergarten, sixth grade, ninth grade, these big milestones where they're interacting with different groups of people. And I think when we look back on the kids that were born between 2006 and 2000, whenever we stop this, I think we're going to see group of people that have a lot of problems.

And I think what's going to be unfortunate is the kids that were raised where their parents were trying to be a bit strict about like what they're exposed to are going to look like savants, but they're just going to be regular people. Right. And so like, I don't know, man, like a relief, honestly.

Like when we've handed an iPad to them in the car and they just shut up, it's like, Oh, why don't we do this at every meal? And it's like, well, it's the hard work. It's the work you've got to put in to make sure you're raising a good person. And so we torture our way through it, but we find other ways to keep them entertained.

[00:58:39] Adam: Yeah, I love that. I love that and it probably leads to the creativity and the desire to build a two story fort and all that stuff.

[00:58:47] Cory: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:58:48] Adam: Cool. Okay. I have one more question for you and then lightning round

[00:58:54] Cory: Okay.

[00:58:54] Adam: What is a mistake that you've made as a dad?

[00:59:00] Cory: Ooh, no, there's a lot of them. There's plenty of them, but I think probably, The biggest mistake I have made is, well, maybe not having them early enough. I hope that doesn't sound like a cop out, but like, I like to sit and think about like where the world's going and whatnot. Right. And you know, in this world where like people are having longer and longer lifespans, hopefully that we've stopped eating bullshit, but like, I think about the fact that like, I'm 45, my son's five.

Right. I didn't meet the person that I wanted to have kids with until I was in my late thirties and mid thirties. Right. Like, I don't know what their social life is going to be like. I don't know how hard it's going to be for to find somebody in a world where people have short attention spans and people think that everybody has to look and have the amazing life of, you know, the few people that are bubbled to the top of Instagram.

I don't know how hard it is for them to find like their person. I don't know. I have no idea what the world looks like 18 years from now. Like, I feel like it's going to be strange. It's going to be weird. It's going to be alien to us. And so it's just like, I think about like, I probably won't, I probably won't meet my grandkids, which is pretty wild, right?

Like, sorry, that one gets me a little bit. Um, But like, that's one of the things I worry about is like shit, like. They're going to have to make major life decisions very early for me to meet like who they grew up to be, which sucks.

[01:00:21] Adam: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good, good argument for having kids earlier.

[01:00:28] Cory: Yeah, don't have him at 21 though. Christ. Like give yours. Yeah. Like, I think that's the thing that sucks is like, it takes a while to like find yourself. Right. Like when you look at, sorry, I'm like, that one gets me.

[01:00:38] Adam: You are not the first dad to get a little emotional on Startup Dad. That's not the goal of the show…

[01:00:43] Cory: That's not the goal of the show. Let's make these bitches cry. No, no, but like, I mean, like our brains, it's funny. It's like, there's so much stuff that we do in the world. We're like, oh, 18, you're an adult. And it's like, the human brain doesn't stop growing till you're like 26, 28. Like, we don't even know who we are yet.

Like, I mean, I know some people have kids young and you have kids young, like things happen, but like that time between 21 to 28, like, you know, I lost a lot of that to my first wife. Like we weren't a good couple. We weren’t a good pair. And it's like, that's one of those times I'm just like, man, like I learned so much about myself from 26 to 35 that I never would have learned.

And so, you know, whoever has kids at a young age, you're awesome. It's hard. You missed out on a little bit of fun. You got to figure out how to get that fun in and discover yourself. I'm not judging you. Everybody's a little bit different, but like, I don't know. I wish I would have had him a bit younger, but I probably would have had him with the wrong person.

[01:01:33] Adam: There you go.

[01:01:34] Cory: There you go. Right. So,

[01:01:35] Adam: It might have been a very different outcome. Yeah. Where can people follow along with you or be helpful? How can they help you on LinkedIn Lunatics?

[01:01:43] Cory: Oh dude. Show up on a Friday to my LinkedIn Cory O’Daniel. Although my shit post today was not a shit post. Well, it was a shit post, but it's a shit post. I actually believe in, I prefixed it with that. Next Friday's is pretty good. I already wrote it. But yeah LinkedIn I'm also on Reddit.

My username there is Cory O apostrophe. I'm on Twitter and Blue Sky as well. Like I'm, I think my Blue Sky, I'm going to try to very much keep it engineering focused. There's a lot of engineers there. That's exciting to me. It feels like old Twitter. I think I'm keeping my X account.

Like I honestly, I hate that place, but I feel like now more than ever, I think people need to be a lot more vocal about like how they actually feel about politics and whatnot. And I feel like, unfortunately that's might be the best place for it. So I plan to keep that. I was actually talking through this with like some of my friends the other day.

Like, so I plan to keep that, but I'll probably be doing a lot less technology stuff there and I'm probably going to try to shed all my technology followers there as quickly as possible. I don't know, it's a weird time in politics, whether, whatever, either side that you're on, like the state that we're in sucks.

And so I'm going to talk about my feelings there about that. And I want to sequester different social, I hate social. So it's like, if I can sequester it and know, like, I don't feel like talking about politics today. It's like, I'm not going to go on that platform. My, my Reddit is all like our dev ops, like our Terraform, just like work stuff, and then like my RC car enthusiasts are there, which is like my hobby that's where you can find me or you can find me at my house if you're looking for me, but I have a no trespassing sign and I'm very good at throwing axes. So watch out.

[01:03:13] Adam: We're very good at throwing axes. Well, we will not dox you and post your address in the show notes, but we will link to those other places.

[01:03:20] Cory: All right, CEO's got to be careful these days

[01:03:24] Adam: Oof. Tell me about it. 

Cory: Sorry dark joke, dark joke, dark joke.

Adam: Wow. Wow. Too soon. Too soon. Okay. Are you ready for lightning round?

 Cory: Let’s do it.

Adam: Alright, rules of lightning round are simple. I ask you a question, you say the first thing that comes to mind, then we move on.

No judgment. Alright, here we go. What is the best book that you've read in the last 12 months?

[01:03:41] Cory: Best book that I've read in the last 12 months would probably be Jitterbug Perfume. It's where my son's name comes from. I reread it every year.

[01:03:50] Adam: Awesome. What is the weirdest thing that you found in your kids pockets or in the washing machine?

[01:03:56] Cory: Oh my gosh, so much weird stuff. It's usually like broken, like other people's broken toys, but I've found, I think the weirdest thing is like, my son collects like interesting stuff he finds like on plants and so like, he'll just like, we'll just like pull out like seeds and pods and like pieces of flowers.

And like, occasionally there's some living bugs in there. So like, it's just like, Look at all the stuff I found in the yard. It's like, that is like, I can't remember what they're called. These nasty little beetle things that live in the ground. They're ugly. And it's just, he pulls it all out of his pocket.

And like one of those just like flops on the floor and it's just like skittering. I'm like, Oh gosh, that's so disgusting. Like I can deal with a spider, but those things are so gross looking. I don't know. I'll find it. You throw it in the show notes so people can vomit when they look at them.

They're so gross.

[01:04:41] Adam: True or false, there is only one correct way to load the dishwasher.

[01:04:45] Cory: True.

[01:04:46] Adam: Okay. You're a man after my own heart. What's your signature dad superpower?

[01:04:51] Cory: Oh, well, I think this one's going to be retired. And that is that I can lift my son up to reach anything, but like, Oh man, like five year olds start to get heavy. And so like we had the talk recently. I was like, mom's already past the point where this is another one that I hope this doesn't get me, but like, there's going to be a point in time where you pick up your kid.

And it's the last time you're ever going to do it. Like it's going to happen at some point in time and like, make it memorable. And so my wife, like recently was like, I can't pick them up anymore. I was like, do you remember the last time like you were able to hold him and she's like, I don't. And I'm like, Holy shit.

So I'm like getting worried. I'm like, fuck, I don't want the last time to be like, when I pick them up and hurt myself. It's like, I want it to be something cute. Like He fell asleep in the car. So what is wild is we did have a crazy party. Last Friday, and it was a Christmas party. We throw a banger Christmas party every year.

We throw a banger 4th of July party. And our son fell asleep on the couch. My wife's like, I'm going to pick him up and carry him to his bedroom. And it'll probably be our last time. So. Yeah, I mean, this is, I've just made this dumb mistakes of just like, I'll pick him up. He's like, I want to touch that.

And it's like, I can pick you up. I can get you up there. And the other day he was like, I want to spin the fan with my hands. And I just pick him up and I'm like, Oh, like over my head. And I'm like, Oh no. And so like, the other night I was sitting in bed. I'm like, I think I'm having, I was like, I legit think I'm having a heart attack.

And my wife's like, we're both freaking out. And then I'm like, Oh no, no, no, no. It's just all the pulled muscles in the left side of my body. Oh, I'm not dying. I'm just an idiot.

[01:06:17] Adam: Oh man. Okay. If your kids had to describe you in one word, what would it be?

[01:06:23] Cory: Dude or cool.

[01:06:25] Adam: Okay. What is the funniest thing that one of your kids ever said in public?

[01:06:31] Cory: Oh my God. So this guy right here, he sucks.

[01:06:36] Adam: Your neighbor?

Cory: His. His dog sucks, his yard sucks, his house sucks, every single thing about this guy sucks. He's the only neighbor I don't like. Mostly because his dog just sits at this fence and barks at me all day while I'm trying to record podcasts. But he's a like a hoarder.

[01:06:52] Cory: So like, if you look at, if you look from Google maps, like the backyard is just, he's got like 14 sheds. I'm like, how many bodies are in there? And so one day we're walking down the street and he's outside and he's got like a muddy bike that he's hosing off. And my son's, I think three at the time. And this is going back to like his command of English is insane.

He's three. We're walking down the street and he goes, I like your bike. And the guy just kind of looks at him and like, doesn't say anything. I'm like, Dick, I'd say, thanks. It's an ugly ass bike anyway, bro. Like kids being nice at best. The guy doesn't say anything, but his front porch is just covered in shit.

And my son goes, cause we say this all the time. Like, do you love your house? Do you love the earth? Like when he litters, I'm like, that's not a way to love the earth. Like that you're like, we can't litter, right? Same thing in the house. Like we don't leave our toys on the ground because it shows disrespect for our house.

So he looks at the guy. He goes, doesn't look like you love your house. You should clean your porch. And I was just like, Oh my God. Like, go, go, go, go, go, go. Cause I was like, literally like ushering. I'm sorry, bud. Like, oh,

[01:07:51] Adam: Oh that's amazing

[01:07:51] Cory: So we don't walk down that street anymore. But, uh, we just give each other those like evil Simpson eyes over the, like the baby Simpson eyes over the bush every once in a while when I hear his dog barking.

[01:08:00] Adam: Baby Simpson eyes with a unibrow. Yeah. I know what you're talking about. What is the most indispensable parenting product that you have ever purchased?

[01:08:08] Cory: Oh, indispensable parenting product that we've ever purchased.

I would say, I mean, the cozy couch honestly has the best. Like we've gotten to the cozy couch is clutch. I've used it for sound dampening for podcasts. I had to record in the kitchen one day. Kids love it. I mean, there's endless amounts of things you can do with it, but like in our house, we used to have a, we called it the harem room, which it turns out is the wrong word.

Uh, so apparently it's a room full of women. I thought it was a room full of pillows. So we called it the harem for the longest time, my wife and I have always had a room in our house, like an area that is just a big cozy like lounge area. And so like when we were younger, like it was, we're pretty much where all of our parties would end.

We'd have a record player there. So we've got like our whiskey glasses, and the entire area is just like plush rugs and pillows. So like we can all just kind of lounge around and bullshit. Sounds like some swinger stuff. It's not, it's literally just like homies all hanging out. And so we have gotten rid of that now that we have kids for the playroom.

And so we want to bring the pillow room back at some point in time and the cozy couch makes a great, like in a pinch pillow room. So it's just like, you know, we'll flop both of them out, put the sides up, like throw the couch cushions in there and then just like kind of lay around, listen to a record, like sip a glass of wine or whiskey and bullshit.

[01:09:22] Adam: Sounds great. Love that. What is the most useless parenting product you ever purchased?

[01:09:26] Cory: Oh, diaper pails, dude. Yo, like even if you get one that is airtight and you can't smell anything in there when you open it you're getting concentrated poopoo like by there's the poop bags. They make Biodegradable ones. Diaper straight in that poop diaper straight in there. Just throw it out the front door. When you walk out to the garage or garbage later, just get it and throw it in the garbage can, like save space.

Doesn't stink. Don't have to clean it. Doesn't stink. And then peepees, the peepees just go in the regular trash. Like it doesn't smell that bad. It soaks it up. Like, unless you take your trash out, like once a week from your kitchen, like you're not going to smell the peepees, but the poopoos go straight into a dog poop bag right out the door.

We even have a we have a Dutch door. Type of the top open. So it's literally just like, I just opened that and just sling it out. My neighbors are probably like, there's like 18 poop bags on his front porch. What's going on? It's like, well, the kids had Panda Express last night. It's a little bit rough in here.

Okay. Like.

[01:10:18] Adam: The kids had Panda Express. Amazing. Okay, so no on the diaper pails.

[01:10:24] Cory: Dude, diaper pail, waste of money.

[01:10:26] Adam: Finish the sentence. The ideal day with one of my kids involves this one activity.

[01:10:31] Cory: Right now it's bikes. I think it's biking right now. Right. My son just learned to ride a bike with no, no training wheels. He's pedaling his first time. And like, this dude is just like, it's like, he's seeing how big the world can be. He's like, I can go so far. And so it's just like, it's fun watching him outside.

Like our whole street is a giant downhill with these huge speed bumps on them. So he's just like, these are ramps. And it's like, dude, you're not getting off the ground at all. It's just like watching him. And now my daughter's just like, she's on our little red tricycle thing. Still. She's seeing him do it.

And she's like, I got to do that. And so like, she'll get out there. She'll it's downhill. I mean, it's not steep downhill. It's just, it's very gradual there. They're not going more than like. Five, 10 miles an hour. Maybe that tricycle doesn't go fast at all, but she's so funny. So she looks like she sees my son go and he doesn't get, he's, he doesn't get air. He doesn't even pop a wheelie on these speed bumps. It's just like, it's just a little bump. And he's like, Oh, I jumped like 20 feet in the air. I'm like, you have no idea how to measure anything.

Shut up. But my daughter will be on the little tricycle thing. And like it the. She can't pedal because it's mounted, like the wheels just start spinning crazy fast. And so as soon as she hits the speed bump, she just goes, boom, like legs straight up in the air, like Evil Knievel. And I'm like, how, like what in your subconscious, like made you just reach straight for Evil Knievel style, like ramping.

And so, and she just cackles like a crazy person. And I'm like this girl is like adrenaline, an adrenaline junkie. I don't know what we're going to do. She's going to come home and like a parachute one day probably land right on top of the house. But seeing them on bikes is funny.

Until they crash. So then it's like, oh shit. Okay.

[01:12:01] Adam: Inevitably happens. They're low to the ground. It's fine.

[01:12:04] Cory: Yeah, they’re low to the ground.

[01:12:05] Adam: Worst time of day in your household. 6 a. m. To 8 a. m. Or 6 p. m. To 8 p. m.?

[01:12:10] Cory: I say 6am to 8am. I'm still not, I'm still not a morning person. Like no matter how much I sleep, like six, six to eight at night is fun. Like we, we put on music, we turn the lights down in the house. a lot of our lights are those like Edison bulbs. You know? And so, and they're on dimmer. So we'll get the house, like a very like warm feel.

We do a lot of candles. So like the house is like nice and cozy at night. We put on music. My son's got an amazing taste in music. I don't know where he got it from. Like they're listening to crazy shit at daycare. Like he, he's into The Weekend. Like he knows all the words and I'm like, That song's about being drunk at 2 a.

1. going after a girl. Like you shouldn't know the lyrics, but like banging, I'm glad I'm not listening to wheels on the bus right now. So like, we've always got good music going on. Like there's a nice vibe in the evening. We're cooking. They're fun. Like they like to help cut. We have we have these kid knives.

They're sharp enough to cut stuff. So they help. In the morning though. It's always like, everyone's tired diapers to change, turn it on the lights. And they're just like, It's just like the bright morning lights. I'm not lighting candles at six in the morning. So 6 AM has got to go.

[01:13:11] Adam: Yea, all right. What's your go to dad wardrobe?

[01:13:14] Cory: Nowadays. It's just the MassDriver shirt. Like I got like 2000 of them this and uh, some Marine Layer joggers, if you don't

[01:13:23] Adam: I know those. Yeah.

[01:13:26] Cory: Marine Layer's boss.

[01:13:27] Adam: I own a lot of Marine Layer stuff.

[01:13:29] Cory: That's all I want for Christmas is Marine Layer and RC car parts.

[01:13:33] Adam: Okay, cool. How many dad jokes do you tell on average in a given day?

[01:13:38] Cory: I don't do a lot of dad jokes, but I am just generally corny as hell. So weave it into my existence.

[01:13:46] Adam: You've ever secretly thrown away a piece of your kid's artwork?

[01:13:49] Cory: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. All the time. Like there's like, we have, so we have an art book of like stuff that's worth keeping, but like we kind of have a rule. It's like, if it's homework. If it's something and they've colored like a part of it out of here, if it's anything that they draw, like, boom, this is my welcome back from re: Invent card.

My s my son made for me when I was gone. Like that state that's staying here forever. He took a picture that says you rock dad and glued it to a rock. Like that's staying here forever. If his creativity went into it. If it was something that he had to like do on his own, like I'm into that.

But if it's like, Hey, the school sent home this like coloring thing and it's an abomination, it's like, that's a, get that out of here.

[01:14:26] Adam: Okay. What is the most difficult kids TV show you have ever had to sit through? This, these are probably now banned in your household, but…

[01:14:36] Cory: Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, I mean, a ton of them we'll watch something like if somebody tells us like, oh, like you should have the kids watch this. Like, we'll sit down and watch it first. And it's just like, no, that's not going to happen. But the Coco Melon stuff is straight brain rot.

Like you're damaging your kid's heads, man. You got to find something else. Those people are bad people.

[01:14:54] Adam: Coco Melon has been mentioned many times in this segment

Cory: Dude like everybody that works for Coco Melon, you are a bad person. I'm sorry. You're a bad person. Like you're doing damage to a boatload of kids, but I'm glad you're getting paid for it. Congratulations.

Adam: Okay. On the flip side, what is your favorite kids movie?

[01:15:14] Cory: I would have to say probably one of the Toy Story’s. Definitely not Paw Patrol, that is one that we've given into. Cause like everybody's so into it.

So like, he will get to watch the Paw Patrol movies, like when they come out,

[01:15:25] Adam: How long can a piece of food sit on the floor in your house and you will still eat it?

[01:15:30] Cory: you got to do it quick. Cause the dog is the dog knows she's not allowed to have human food. And so the second something hits the ground, like she is on it. But I mean, if it doesn't have a sauce, dude, I like, I mean, I grew up poor so if on the floor, if there's no sauce, like if I drop an M and M and I find it the next day, I'll eat an M and M that I find on the floor.

Like I've, it's got a shell on it. Like, I believe in that shell. I don't think any bacteria can grow on whatever it's made out of. But, you know.

[01:15:58] Adam: I believe in that shell.

[01:16:00] Cory: I don’t know.

[01:16:02] Adam: Okay. Just a couple more for ya. What a nostalgic movie. Can you just not wait to force your kids to watch?

[01:16:09] Cory: already tried this once and it failed, so I think I got to find another one, but by far my favorite movie there's two. One is Retribution, my parents have, just have to do through me. And the other one is like my absolute favorite movie. And that is David Bowie, or sorry, Jim Henson's. It's David Bowie's Labyrinth. Okay, Jim Henson, it's your, this was David Bowie's movie, dude. Um, I got the entire thing memorized. I know every single song. I love

[01:16:35] Adam: Dance the magic dance. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:16:37] Cory: Also Back To The Future and here's why when back to the future came out on pay per view I was living in that apartment complex for the, with the dumpster that had all the good toys in it, it came out on pay per view and imagine this, like we're poor enough that I'm in a dumpster looking for toys, but I'm in a dumpster.

I'd figured out how pay per view worked, and I was one of these kids, I was eight, like my parents had jobs, so I'd kind of just be home for like a few hours by myself, like at eight, that's happened in the 80s, like we also didn't have, we also didn't have seatbelts, like it was crazy times, you could drive around with a beer and it was fine, like it wasn't that long ago, it was pure chaos, so.

I'd have a few hours by myself. I figured out pay per view and lo and behold, there's this amazing movie called Back To The Future, which just captured my heart as a kid. What also captured was a lot of my parents revenue.

[01:17:29] Adam: Last one for you. What is your take on minivans?

[01:17:33] Cory: Oh, I want one, but somebody's got to make an electric one. I like I drive the closest thing to one today. A model Y I would love to have just a pure minivan, but like I need, I'm not going to a gas station ever again in my life.

[01:17:45] Adam: Yeah. Awesome. All right. Electric minivan. Here we go. Cory. This concludes Startup Dad. Thank you so much for joining me. This is probably one of the most fun episodes I've ever recorded. Super appreciate it. And all the best to you, your family and MassDriver take care, have a good one. 

Cory:I appreciate it.

[01:18:05] Adam: Thank you for listening to today's conversation with Cory O'Daniel. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe, share, and leave me a review on Apple or Spotify. It'll help other people find this podcast.

Startup Dad is a Fishman AF production with editing support from Tommy Harron. If you're a startup founder, leader, or just want to get better at your job in tech, as a growth practitioner, Product manager or executive. You can join a community of over 11,000 subscribers and stay up to date on my thoughts on growth product and parenting by subscribing to the Fishman AF newsletter at www.fishmanafnewsletter.com. Thanks for listening and see you next week.